Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] [Campaign Question] The project page (crowdsupp...
lkcl
2018-06-21 15:35:31 UTC
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thanks for this - it's really appreciated, i'm going to cc the mailing
list, bcc'ing you, and taking out your email address.

there is something which i've not put on the page (however it has been
discussed many times over the years on the mailing list). right now
the last thing that's needed is for a huge number of non-technical
individuals to come online at once and overwhelm the *volunteer*
technical members of the mailing list.

you may not be aware of this but the total number of people working
full-time paid-up to work on this project is presently ZERO.

as in: the total number of people with full-time funding to work on
this project is: ZERO.

as this was an anticipated possibility as far back as 3+ years ago the
page was *deliberately* designed to attract TECHNICALLY aware
individuals and to DISCOURAGE non-technically-aware users: people who
are self-starters, "tinkerers" and electronics experts.

from that base of people, when they receive their pledged items, a
small community will grow at a pace that they can cope with, who will
then be able to create the documentation, wiki pages, update the
source code and so on.

by *that* time, *THEN* and ***ONLY*** then will the project be in a
state where it can accommodate non-technical end-users. at that point
people who can do "sales", companies that can take "orders" will be
needed (because i cannot do that, due to being the Certification Mark
holder).

at *that* point, the advice that you've given below will become relevant.

hope that helps clarify.

l.
submitted a question about your project, "Earth-friendly
The project page (crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop) can be difficult to
read through & understand because of the heavy use of acronyms without
accompanying long-names/full-names and ELI5 definitions. I have a general
background in development & admin and I had to look up the long name and
definition for a number of the acronyms used. This approach, while more
concise, is going to be very off-putting to many people who are more used to
buying pre-built computers than building their own. I love the idea of this
project and want to see it succeed, but the harder the content is to read for
non-hardware geeks, the harder it will be to convince non-hardware geeks to
spend their money on it.
Please consider reserving some of those terms for tech specs, white papers,
etc., and replace them with descriptions &/or more generic terms that your
neighbors, friends, or relatives who ask you to help them fix their computers
or connect their new printers, etc., will understand. Better yet, ask some of
those people to read through your copy and give feedback on comprehension and
overall impression by non-computer geeks. If you don't want to reach that
audience, then please pick the lowest technical knowledge customer group you do
want to reach and get their feedback. Maybe it's the type of person who has
never worked in IT, but can attach plug & play devices, set up Wi-Fi on their
own, etc.
Again, I really do want to see projects like this succeed. Best of luck and
I've already bookmarked this for future reference.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crowd Supply
https://www.crowdsupply.com
811 SE Stark St, #300
Portland, OR 97214-1241
800-554-2014
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Bill Kontos
2018-06-24 11:48:31 UTC
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Post by lkcl
thanks for this - it's really appreciated, i'm going to cc the mailing
list, bcc'ing you, and taking out your email address.
there is something which i've not put on the page (however it has been
discussed many times over the years on the mailing list). right now
the last thing that's needed is for a huge number of non-technical
individuals to come online at once and overwhelm the *volunteer*
technical members of the mailing list.
This is something that I see a lot of people not appreciate: People
use their windows computers full time with absolutely no technical
support. Even when they pay( and even for pre installed computers the
notion of the OS being part of the cost exists subconsciously as I've
noticed with a friend), they do not expect or feel entitled to
technical support. It comes to show how important the maturity of a
project is( as in even the worst OS currently available can run long
enough to warrant the users not requiring technical support).

I think once the original crowdfunding pledges are delivered a first
round of outreach will be required. I don't know how future sales of
the project are going to happen( since as you said you don't intend to
stay in the business of making them for long) or who is going to
develop new cards but the project could definitely use some extra
eyes. Personally I'm holding off a purchase both due to the fact that
the A20 is too slow for anything useful for me and mainly due to cost(
and I want to build a NAS at some point too).

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-06-24 12:07:23 UTC
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Post by Bill Kontos
I think once the original crowdfunding pledges are delivered a first
round of outreach will be required. I don't know how future sales of
the project are going to happen( since as you said you don't intend to
stay in the business of making them for long)
ah you misunderstand, bill: i have NEVER been permitted to be in the
BUSINESS of selling cards, EVER. a Certification Mark holder is not
permitted to, as it is "competing with licensees". the only way to
get the Cards out to people is to be an "Advisor" to ThinkPenguin, who
has handled the finances and so on.

so let me be clear: ANYONE MAY CONTACT ME AND BECOME A SALES AGENT.
or license EOMA68 and make their own Housings and Cards. if the
design is entirely libre the licensing fee will be zero and i will do
everything i can to help them.
Post by Bill Kontos
or who is going to develop new cards
anyone may do so... under license [zero fees if it's libre]. i have
been doing them up until now.
Post by Bill Kontos
but the project could definitely use some extra
eyes.
yep i know.
Post by Bill Kontos
Personally I'm holding off a purchase both due to the fact that
the A20 is too slow for anything useful for me and mainly due to cost(
and I want to build a NAS at some point too).
rockpro64 for you, then. damn good board.

l.

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Wean Irdeh
2018-06-25 05:48:08 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
rockpro64 for you, then. damn good board.
How does that compare to EOMA68 standard board? What things I will
miss when I purchase that board?

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-06-25 06:43:58 UTC
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Post by Wean Irdeh
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
rockpro64 for you, then. damn good board.
How does that compare to EOMA68 standard board? What things I will
miss when I purchase that board?
the rk3399 has 6-cores, pci express 4-lane and USB3.

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Wean Irdeh
2018-06-25 08:22:26 UTC
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No, I mean, in terms of libre hardware

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 1:43 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Wean Irdeh
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
rockpro64 for you, then. damn good board.
How does that compare to EOMA68 standard board? What things I will
miss when I purchase that board?
the rk3399 has 6-cores, pci express 4-lane and USB3.
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-06-25 08:27:31 UTC
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Post by Wean Irdeh
No, I mean, in terms of libre hardware
ok. so MALI is the only problem, there. i *believe* the video stuff
is good and/or being worked on (v4l2), you'll have to investigate a
bit deeper. booting, general-purpose use: absolutely no problem
whatsoever.

l.

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Bill Kontos
2018-07-02 14:12:59 UTC
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On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
anyone may do so... under license [zero fees if it's libre]. i have
been doing them up until now.
I am aware. My question was more on the practical terms of who is
*actually* going to make future cards after the A20. Is thinkpenguin
going to make them on their own?

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-07-02 15:28:07 UTC
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Post by Bill Kontos
On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
anyone may do so... under license [zero fees if it's libre]. i have
been doing them up until now.
I am aware. My question was more on the practical terms of who is
*actually* going to make future cards after the A20.
i don't know. anyone wants to approach me i'm *required* as the
Certification Mark Holder to consider their approach [FRAND]
Post by Bill Kontos
Is thinkpenguin going to make them on their own?
i don't know: that will be up to them as a business to decide.

l.

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