Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] The Unplanned Obsolescence of the First Fairphone Device « Paul Boddie's Free Software-related blog
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-01-09 03:29:38 UTC
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On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross
https://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=802
yyeahh.... paul's absolutely right - i was delighted when i first
heard of the fairphone... then cringed when i learned it used a
mediatek processor. i tried to reach them to warn them but it was by
then too late. they didn't ask anyone with any actual knowledge of
software, just the questions which they are *used* to asking, such as
labour-related ethics of the kinds of "boxed products" that the coop
is used to selling.

well... they know now that there are different kinds of ethics! bit
of an expensive lesson that...

l.

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Nico Rikken
2015-01-09 07:00:01 UTC
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Having had recent contact with the Fairphone-team on this issue (as a
potential customer), they state that above all they are interested in
working with the community to get this sorted. Now that they have a
dedicated Software Developer in Kees Jongenburger hopefully they'll be
able to turn things around for future models. We know the difficulties,
but they clearly underestimated the impact of their hardware decision.

Kind regards,
Nico Rikken
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-01-09 08:37:25 UTC
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Post by Nico Rikken
Having had recent contact with the Fairphone-team on this issue (as a
potential customer), they state that above all they are interested in
working with the community to get this sorted. Now that they have a
dedicated Software Developer in Kees Jongenburger hopefully they'll be
able to turn things around for future models.
great. are you in touch with him, i'd like to get in touch with them.
Post by Nico Rikken
We know the difficulties,
but they clearly underestimated the impact of their hardware decision.
yeah :)

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Nico Rikken
2015-01-09 09:39:12 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Nico Rikken
Having had recent contact with the Fairphone-team on this issue (as a
potential customer), they state that above all they are interested in
working with the community to get this sorted. Now that they have a
dedicated Software Developer in Kees Jongenburger hopefully they'll be
able to turn things around for future models.
great. are you in touch with him, i'd like to get in touch with them.
I've had minor email contact with Joe Mier after the recent blog-post,
but both Communications Manager Joe Mier and Software Developer Kees
Jongenburger can be contacted like joe [at] fairphone.com.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-01-09 22:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nico Rikken
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Nico Rikken
Having had recent contact with the Fairphone-team on this issue (as a
potential customer), they state that above all they are interested in
working with the community to get this sorted. Now that they have a
dedicated Software Developer in Kees Jongenburger hopefully they'll be
able to turn things around for future models.
great. are you in touch with him, i'd like to get in touch with them.
I've had minor email contact with Joe Mier after the recent blog-post,
but both Communications Manager Joe Mier and Software Developer Kees
Jongenburger can be contacted like joe [at] fairphone.com.
star.

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Paul Boddie
2015-01-09 17:54:12 UTC
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Joining the discussion late and breaking the threading... ;-)
Post by Nico Rikken
Having had recent contact with the Fairphone-team on this issue (as a
potential customer), they state that above all they are interested in
working with the community to get this sorted. Now that they have a
dedicated Software Developer in Kees Jongenburger hopefully they'll be
able to turn things around for future models. We know the difficulties,
but they clearly underestimated the impact of their hardware decision.
I must admit that I felt a bit bad complaining about their software strategy
when there is someone who does seem to care about the matter (at least now,
anyway). But I still feel that the initiative managed to store up a lot of
problems that they could easily have avoided.

As I noted a year-and-a-half ago [1], the publicity materials seemed to play
fast and loose with things like software sustainability and platform openness:
mocking up Skype running on a phone (or perhaps just taking a screenshot from
an existing phone) might work for much-needed stock images, but it sends the
wrong message on a number of issues (Skype being proprietary software, uses a
proprietary network, has various intelligence agencies and corporations
eavesdropping on conversations, is controlled by a single corporation who
happens to have a competing software platform and is shaking down Android
product vendors for patent licences).

Of course, a lot of the potential audience don't care about that: they just
want to be reassured that the materials in the phone are ethically sourced
before reaching for their usual toys, and they hadn't then (and probably
haven't now) widened their ethical concerns in the areas of privacy and
transparency. My impression is that those running the initiative either didn't
have such widened concerns, didn't want to tackle such things as well as the
other stuff, or just got some bad advice.

The sad thing is that good advice could have been had for a tiny fraction of
the effort that these people have gone to in the areas of materials sourcing
and fair working practices, which as far as I can tell, have been thoroughly
dealt with and require a commitment to social justice that involves dealing
with some fairly entrenched and, particularly in the case of the minerals
supply chain, some rather horrible problems.

I have to note that I wouldn't have been so aware of the dubious practices of
the hardware business myself if it hadn't been for Luke and others documenting
it on this list and elsewhere, or of the mishaps that plagued the first
attempt at the Vivaldi tablet, but those lessons have been out there for
people to learn from, and it seems now that either those responsible for the
groundwork just didn't have the community awareness or that they felt that
things would mend themselves when selecting manufacturing partners: itself a
compromise between the flexibility to get the software done the right way
(potentially treading on toes and "offending" existing suppliers), and the
flexibility to change their other practices to make the manufacturing
workplace generally fairer.

But then again, running a choice of a MediaTek product by just a few
knowledgeable people would have been enough to set the alarm bells ringing.
Maybe Fairphone would have made the same decision, anyway, and as the
notorious Stephen Elop speech [2] noted (dredged up recently in another blog
post of mine [3]), cobbling together MediaTek designs and throwing them over
the wall was (and undoubtedly still is [4]) common practice, to the point that
doing something else might have been a struggle.

But as we all know, you have to make and sustain investments to do the right
thing. If you look for short-term fixes, you get short-term solutions, and
that's what some of Fairphone's customers will be experiencing in the coming
months and years. Again, Fairphone have committed themselves to ongoing
investments in other areas, and it's a shame that they didn't consider the
technological realm worthy of the same consideration.

Paul

P.S. I just realised that this could have been another complete article. Sorry
to make it a long message for this list! :-)

P.P.S. For those who haven't read it yet, Bunnie's MediaTek reverse-
engineering article [4] below is long but interesting reading. You've got to
admire Bunnie's determination!

[1] http://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=168
[2] http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-
in-brutally-honest-burnin/
[3] http://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=835
[4] http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-01-09 22:11:31 UTC
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Post by Paul Boddie
Joining the discussion late and breaking the threading... ;-)
join the looong club, it's not entirely um without precedent here ...
Post by Paul Boddie
P.S. I just realised that this could have been another complete article. Sorry
to make it a long message for this list! :-)
we liike long messages :)
Post by Paul Boddie
P.P.S. For those who haven't read it yet, Bunnie's MediaTek reverse-
engineering article [4] below is long but interesting reading. You've got to
admire Bunnie's determination!
yehhhh, been there - at some point you just have to take a step back
and ask yourself, "is this *really* worth it? what could i better
achieve - what goal could i set - that has a higher bang-per-buck
ratio for my effort-to-result" and you start to advocate the same
things as libv, such as "for goodness sake stay away from powervr".

no the problem with mediatek is that they are actually *really low
cost*. price-wise they truly have the market.

and in the phone market, it is made even worse by the fact that FCC
certification is *directly* incompatible with the goals of the FSF for
these "hybrid" SoCs, where there is access to the GSM/3G/LTE radio
from the memory of the main SoC. remember: each variant of the
firmware-hardware combination requires re-certification. that's $USD
50,000 *each time you upgrade the OS!*.

back in 2004 someone reverse-engineered one of the low-cost HTC
smartphones which has a hybrid SoC with its GSM/3G baseband sharing
the same memory as the SoC. it was discovered that you could change
the power output of the GSM Transmitter simply by changing the
contents of a memory address. from WinCE! it wasn't even protected,
so even a standard WinCE application or virus could do it! and that's
just damn dangerous.... *but* it's low-cost.

so for FSF Endorsebility you need to have a *separate* 3G/GSM/LTE
chipset - entirely separate - which means it now needs USB2
connectivity (to the main SoC), but the firmware is complex these days
(AT command set for a start) so you need a general-purpose SoC *in the
Radio Chipset*, and you also need quite a bit of RAM (separate RAM
ICs), *and* you need NAND/NOR Flash to store the firmware: all that
means extra cost.

so you now have an additional $USD 12 for a GSM/EDGE phone and an
additional $USD 30 or so for a 3G one in the BOM if you want to go the
properly ethical upgradeable route, because you can, if you do that,
use any general-purpose SoC available on the market: allwinner, TI,
Freescale - anything.

l.
Post by Paul Boddie
[1] http://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=168
[2] http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-
in-brutally-honest-burnin/
[3] http://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=835
[4] http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-01-12 02:26:10 UTC
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On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 1:00 AM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross
I think "fair"phone deserve a slap,nuge,etc. I've been most frustrated
with them and completely disappointed in them. while I thank them for
making the sources of the minerals not (so?) evil. there thinking,policy
about software has been bs :(. it still status quo of a new hole product
each year or 2 to replace what could be a perfectly good working one if
it wasn't for the software.
and that lack of upgradeability, being precisely what makes it
obsolete and thus a *burden* on the environment rather than a gain, is
*exactly* why they are happy to listen, now.

they didn't think this through properly because it really is more
complex than they suspected.

l.

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Paul Boddie
2015-01-12 13:32:50 UTC
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thx paul boddie. I find your articles most helpful to me, broadening my
view, examples of how to write, explaining things really well - gives me
something to link too that explains thinks i've been thinking on or
havn't been thinking about but you hit the nail on the head and write up
clearly.
That's very kind of you! I think I'm probably too verbose - I even got told
this once by a former colleague and he was talking about me when I'm talking,
never mind when I'm writing stuff down - and thus there's always scope for
some editing.

One of my more useful recent experiences involved editing myself down to meet
a submission limit, and that really forced me to focus on the most important
parts of the message, even though I thought there were some nice things that
had to be dropped. It was also in another language, and so it was also a
useful exercise in being concise and still coherent, which I hope I managed.

Editing stuff can be infuriating because it means spending even more time on
something that you want to just write, publish and be done with, so I guess
I'm not really much of a blogger. ;-)
I think "fair"phone deserve a slap,nuge,etc. I've been most frustrated
with them and completely disappointed in them. while I thank them for
making the sources of the minerals not (so?) evil. there thinking,policy
about software has been bs :(. it still status quo of a new hole product
each year or 2 to replace what could be a perfectly good working one if
it wasn't for the software. it's like there just another group vs group
and with this group there aim so to keep miners employed at all costs.
while claiming the better morals :(
I don't think the miners really want to keep doing their jobs if they could be
doing something nicer, but that leads to the problem of economic development
in those countries. And that's not a developed versus developing world issue:
mining was big in places like the UK for a long time, but you have to ask
whether sufficient opportunities were created when those industries were run
down a few decades ago. Still, I'm going a bit off-topic here and will
exercise restraint to keep the message short. ;-)
so thats why i will never get a unfair-to-me-phone.
One thing Fairphone has arguably managed to achieve is a very public focus on
sourcing, as we saw recently with accusations (the Panorama programme on the
BBC, I think) about Apple's tin sourcing from Indonesia, with the apparent
need for a response by Apple's CEO and assertions (like we've seen around fair
employment) that Apple is supposedly improving the situation.

But on matters of privacy, ownership of devices, and competition issues, the
situation is as dire as it was for the personal computer industry, if not
worse. Here, it's no longer sufficient to deliver an unfair device that's
produced in a relatively fair way, and then to claim that it is "fair".

Paul

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