Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] list posting etiquette
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-10 06:55:34 UTC
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Damn. You know a list has been taken over by posting nazis when entire
threads get hijacked just to tell anyone who cares to listen that someone
top posted, and that breaks someone's flow.
nooo: it means that we have new people whom we need to accommodate
and teach them how to not disrupt communication with over 400 other
people. as we get new people, that discussion naturally needs to take
place regularly.
Well, here's the deal. My e-mail
client is threaded, so I see the whole conversation in order. It just flows
naturally that way.
indeed... but you are just one of the 400+ people. i don't use a
threaded email client; others may use mutt, and so on.
If I want to read the same messages over and over, all I
have to do is open them as many times as I want. There is therefore no need
to quote anything at all, as I have the entire context.
there is no need to quote anything at all... *for you*, as *you* have
the entire context, and have an email client where it is convenient to
review prior messages very very easily.

a busy person (one who has hundreds of messages a day) would not have
the time to do that - hence the reason why there are rules about
providing (and cutting unnecessary) context.
I'm looking at you
especially, hard-core bottom posters,
hard-core bottom-posting is just as bad, as is not cutting extraneous context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this kind of thing - not cutting extraneous context - is *really*
irritating to have to read through. like the wikipedia page says, and
every netiquette page says, it's really important to remove anything
(but ONLY anything) which is not needed. the remaining context should
make the ongoing immediate discussion "understandable". issues that
have already been discussed, resolved and do not need to be repeated
should be removed.

it's pretty sensible stuff
I find this list to be quite informative, and I see a lot of good things
coming in the hopefully not-too-distant future because of the ongoing work
that is taking place here, as well as on various pages and articles linked
here. However, post police hijacking threads to tell people they're posting
wrong, when all they want to do is contribute to the discussion is
counterproductive at best, has happened 2 to 3 times just on this list in
the past 24 hours,
please be patient: we have new people coming in all the time.
has completely derailed a thread at least once in that
time and is enough to make people who otherwise have good contributions want
to leave.
well, one of the things we don't unfortunately enforce properly is
good subject-line management, which would allow people to select the
topics that they're interested in. so, i'm going to try to start
doing that and would appreciate people doing the same.

l.

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Tor, the Marqueteur
2017-05-10 07:16:30 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
nooo: it means that we have new people whom we need to accommodate
and teach them how to not disrupt communication with over 400 other
people. as we get new people, that discussion naturally needs to take
place regularly.
Is there perhaps a link to a good primer on mailing list posting
etiquette that should be added to the welcome message for new subscribers?
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
this kind of thing - not cutting extraneous context - is *really*
irritating to have to read through.
Thanks for mentioning this one. I've thought about saying something
about the looong messages with a short bit at the bottom, but I think
this one is better coming from you as list owner.

Tor
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-10 07:26:23 UTC
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Tor, the Marqueteur
Post by Tor, the Marqueteur
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
nooo: it means that we have new people whom we need to accommodate
and teach them how to not disrupt communication with over 400 other
people. as we get new people, that discussion naturally needs to take
place regularly.
Is there perhaps a link to a good primer on mailing list posting
etiquette that should be added to the welcome message for new subscribers?
*click*... oh yeah :)

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Vincent Legoll
2017-05-10 17:19:04 UTC
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Hello,
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
well, one of the things we don't unfortunately enforce properly is
good subject-line management, which would allow people to select the
topics that they're interested in. so, i'm going to try to start
doing that and would appreciate people doing the same.
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
--
Vincent Legoll

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-10 18:38:22 UTC
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Vincent Legoll
Post by Vincent Legoll
Hello,
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
well, one of the things we don't unfortunately enforce properly is
good subject-line management, which would allow people to select the
topics that they're interested in. so, i'm going to try to start
doing that and would appreciate people doing the same.
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?

l.

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Vincent Legoll
2017-05-10 19:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Vincent Legoll
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm
not doing ML-police.
--
Vincent Legoll

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-10 19:17:42 UTC
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Vincent Legoll
Post by Vincent Legoll
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Vincent Legoll
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
it is... but that's just me. let me put it another way: what benefit
would it bring to this list, and what would we lose, to ask people to
stay on-topic? serious question. if we're to make such a
far-reaching change to the operation of the list, it really does need
to be discussed and analysed, what would be the consequences.
Post by Vincent Legoll
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm
not doing ML-police.
luckily you don't have to: that's my role :)

l.

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zap
2017-05-10 21:24:43 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Vincent Legoll
Post by Vincent Legoll
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Vincent Legoll
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
it is... but that's just me. let me put it another way: what benefit
would it bring to this list, and what would we lose, to ask people to
stay on-topic? serious question. if we're to make such a
far-reaching change to the operation of the list, it really does need
to be discussed and analysed, what would be the consequences.
Post by Vincent Legoll
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm
not doing ML-police.
luckily you don't have to: that's my role :)
I am curious, should we refocus on some of the pressing issues?

such as the rk3288 and the rk3399? hehehe.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
l.
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zap
2017-05-10 21:29:57 UTC
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Post by zap
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Vincent Legoll
Post by Vincent Legoll
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Vincent Legoll
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
it is... but that's just me. let me put it another way: what benefit
would it bring to this list, and what would we lose, to ask people to
stay on-topic? serious question. if we're to make such a
far-reaching change to the operation of the list, it really does need
to be discussed and analysed, what would be the consequences.
Post by Vincent Legoll
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm
not doing ML-police.
luckily you don't have to: that's my role :)
I am curious, should we refocus on some of the pressing issues?
such as the rk3288 and the rk3399? hehehe.
ps, I know I am to blame for some of the off topic discussions so I
apologize if its getting too off topic,

I am curious though, how far have you gotten Luke with the a20 version, etc,
Post by zap
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
l.
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-10 22:48:18 UTC
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Post by zap
I am curious though, how far have you gotten Luke with the a20 version, etc,
no change: waiting is waiting. send board off, wait for 2-4 weeks
for it to be done. nothing i can do in the meantime, absolutely
nothing i can do to speed it up (and asking costs money and often gets
WORSE quality as they rush it).

that's just how hardware is.

l.

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zap
2017-05-11 00:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by zap
I am curious though, how far have you gotten Luke with the a20 version, etc,
no change: waiting is waiting. send board off, wait for 2-4 weeks
for it to be done. nothing i can do in the meantime, absolutely
nothing i can do to speed it up (and asking costs money and often gets
WORSE quality as they rush it).
that's just how hardware is.
Ah, I guess I need to pay attention to the threads more, I had thought
you not talking about anymore recently was a good sign...

oh well.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
l.
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-10 22:46:40 UTC
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Post by zap
I am curious, should we refocus on some of the pressing issues?
such as the rk3288 and the rk3399? hehehe.
:) if i didn't have time i would leave these discussions alone...
except if i thought they were important. i'm waiting for some boards
to be done and arrive from china, and am re-focussing on the 3D
printing.

l.

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Hendrik Boom
2017-05-11 00:30:46 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Or at least change the subject line when the subject changes?

-- hendrik

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-05-11 07:04:47 UTC
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Post by Hendrik Boom
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Or at least change the subject line when the subject changes?
yehyeh, that's what i meant

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Kyle
2017-05-11 11:09:22 UTC
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Just some thoughts ...
If the topic changes, starting a new thread is better than just changing
the subject line, as I may not be interested in the topic that starts
the thread, but if only the subject line changes and the thread doesn't
change, my threaded e-mail client will usually delete messages I'm
interested in along with the messages that didn't interest me at the
beginning of the thread. It probably makes little difference to readers
who don't use threaded mail clients, but those of us who do are greatly
helped when a thread stays on topic as much as possible, and a new
topic, even if it springs from a discussion on another thread, starts a
new thread. That said, it can be hard to determine when a new thread
should start when a new topic springs from a discussion on one thread,
depending how related to the original topic the new one is, and how far
it could stray in the future. In such cases, simply changing the subject
line is probably sufficient.
~Kyle

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