[Arm-netbook] Have you checked out this Open Source RISC-V-based 32-bit μC?

[Peter Carlson]

https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-micro

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

very cool. it would be nice to have some specs - rated speed,
interfaces, virtual memory capabilities and so on. finding out who's
behind it would be a way to find out.

l.

Post by Peter Carlson
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-micro

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[Peter Carlson]

I am on their mailing list but I'll see if there is some pre-release info.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
very cool. it would be nice to have some specs - rated speed,
interfaces, virtual memory capabilities and so on. finding out who's
behind it would be a way to find out.
l.

Post by Peter Carlson
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-micro

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group?
there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if
not years.

l.

Post by Peter Carlson
I am on their mailing list but I'll see if there is some pre-release info.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
very cool. it would be nice to have some specs - rated speed,
interfaces, virtual memory capabilities and so on. finding out who's
behind it would be a way to find out.
l.

Post by Peter Carlson
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-micro

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[Paul Boddie]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group?
there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if
not years.

We at least know who is fabricating their product:

https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers/electronics-fabrication/taiwan-
semiconductor

That's rather interesting because I had the impression that TSMC was really
for people committing to huge volumes, with orders covered by highly secretive
contracts, which isn't what you'd normally associate with a crowdfunding
campaign. But maybe they like to keep their older foundries busy with smaller-
volume orders like this.

Paul

P.S. The Crowd Supply providers directory seems to be an interesting starting
point for anyone looking for companies that do different things:

https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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Post by Paul Boddie

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group?
there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if
not years.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers/electronics-fabrication/taiwan-
semiconductor
That's rather interesting because I had the impression that TSMC was really
for people committing to huge volumes, with orders covered by highly secretive
contracts, which isn't what you'd normally associate with a crowdfunding
campaign. But maybe they like to keep their older foundries busy with smaller-
volume orders like this.

yeah i investigated TSMC some time ago, iirc they still have down to
.36 micron, typically used for power transistors and so on. they'll
almost certainly have .18 micron and 65nm - all of these will be
highly cost-effective (lots of competition), not in huge demand, and
would also be a good proving-ground for an effort such as a RISC-V
slow-speed 32-bit processor.

l.

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/news/codasip-baysand-bring-risc-v-processor-ip-market?news_id=88521

may be related, may be not - this is 65nm (around 700mhz top speed)
and 40nm (around... 1.2ghz top speed if you're very lucky and have a
decent design).

"multivendor" program, basically you chuck a whole bunch of customer's
designs onto a single wafer, absolutely nobody expects to get very
many actual working ICs out of it, but the cost of a single wafer
(bear in mind that 16 wafers have to be made simultaneously, total
cost around $250k or that order, for 40nm) is subdivided amongst many
many people. end result: relatively cheap prototype grade ICs.

the bit about conversion from FPGA... *shudder* that's truly dreadful,
to not bother with the conversion from FPGA layout to a proper IC
layout, just do like a "hard copy" of an FPGA, but given that the
tools can cost $250k *PER WEEK* to rent (not buy) that's hardly
surprising.

anyway all looks very interesting.

l.

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Paul Boddie

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group?
there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if
not years.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers/electronics-fabrication/taiwan-
semiconductor
That's rather interesting because I had the impression that TSMC was really
for people committing to huge volumes, with orders covered by highly secretive
contracts, which isn't what you'd normally associate with a crowdfunding
campaign. But maybe they like to keep their older foundries busy with smaller-
volume orders like this.

yeah i investigated TSMC some time ago, iirc they still have down to
.36 micron, typically used for power transistors and so on. they'll
almost certainly have .18 micron and 65nm - all of these will be
highly cost-effective (lots of competition), not in huge demand, and
would also be a good proving-ground for an effort such as a RISC-V
slow-speed 32-bit processor.
l.

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S

[Paul Boddie]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/news/codasip-baysand-bring-risc-v-proces
sor-ip-market?news_id=88521
may be related, may be not - this is 65nm (around 700mhz top speed)
and 40nm (around... 1.2ghz top speed if you're very lucky and have a
decent design).

Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in
question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:

https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
"multivendor" program, basically you chuck a whole bunch of customer's
designs onto a single wafer, absolutely nobody expects to get very
many actual working ICs out of it, but the cost of a single wafer
(bear in mind that 16 wafers have to be made simultaneously, total
cost around $250k or that order, for 40nm) is subdivided amongst many
many people. end result: relatively cheap prototype grade ICs.

Actually, this came up in the discussion on the Hackaday article linked to
from the campaign:

http://hackaday.com/2016/10/10/the-journey-toward-a-completely-open-
microcontroller/#comment-3227142

I think the term "multi-project wafer" is used, but it sounds like something
rather similar.

Anyway, there is now another article about this campaign:

http://hackaday.com/2016/11/22/mrisc-v-the-first-open-source-risc-v-
microcontroller/

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
the bit about conversion from FPGA... *shudder* that's truly dreadful,
to not bother with the conversion from FPGA layout to a proper IC
layout, just do like a "hard copy" of an FPGA, but given that the
tools can cost $250k *PER WEEK* to rent (not buy) that's hardly
surprising.
anyway all looks very interesting.

It certainly does. Clearly, the people doing it want to shake up the industry
a bit by making the knowledge move around a bit more than it has been doing.
Obviously, there are plenty of genuine economic obstacles around fabrication,
as opposed to how much companies arbitrarily charge in licence fees for their
tools, but somebody has to get the ball rolling.

Paul

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[Advrk Aplmrkt]

Post by Paul Boddie
Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v

Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I
know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the
whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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Post by Advrk Aplmrkt

Post by Paul Boddie
Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v

Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I
know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the
whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?

probably but unfortunately they use the words "open source". best to
use the "ask a question" to get in touch with them.

l.

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[Paul Boddie]

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt

Post by Paul Boddie
Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v

Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I
know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the
whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?

The first words of the campaign mail were "Libre silicon anyone?", and the
campaign material suggests that they know the difference between "open" and
what people have been calling "libre", but you should just ask them anyway.

Paul

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[Advrk Aplmrkt]

Post by Paul Boddie

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt

Post by Paul Boddie
Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v

Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I
know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the
whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?

The first words of the campaign mail were "Libre silicon anyone?", and the
campaign material suggests that they know the difference between "open" and
what people have been calling "libre", but you should just ask them anyway.
Paul

Just asked, hope to get a positive response!

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[Advrk Aplmrkt]

I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs
or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly
they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it
because the FSF likely has no interest in
certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll
get in touch with them and find out!"

I hope this is a good sign?

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt

Post by Paul Boddie

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt

Post by Paul Boddie
Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the
microcontroller
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v

Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I
know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the
whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?

The first words of the campaign mail were "Libre silicon anyone?", and the
campaign material suggests that they know the difference between "open" and
what people have been calling "libre", but you should just ask them anyway.
Paul

Just asked, hope to get a positive response!

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs
or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly
they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it
because the FSF likely has no interest in
certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll
get in touch with them and find out!"

can you please send me their email addresses (by way of cc
introduction) and i'll introduce them.

l.

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[Advrk Aplmrkt]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs
or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly
they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it
because the FSF likely has no interest in
certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll
get in touch with them and find out!"

can you please send me their email addresses (by way of cc
introduction) and i'll introduce them.
l.

OK, will do! Maybe one day there will be a RISC-V based EOMA68 computer!

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[Advrk Aplmrkt]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs
or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly
they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it
because the FSF likely has no interest in
certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll
get in touch with them and find out!"

can you please send me their email addresses (by way of cc
introduction) and i'll introduce them.
l.

Just sent them an email CC-ing you. Hope I did it correctly!

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Advrk Aplmrkt
Just sent them an email CC-ing you. Hope I did it correctly!

thx a

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