[Arm-netbook] Retrfit a Nokia and KiCad fun

[m***@gmail.com]

https://hackaday.com/2017/09/12/hackaday-prize-entry-retrofit-a-nokia/
https://hackaday.io/project/21263-nokia-3210-retro-fit-board

Quote from the project log:
"With the patched I submitted you can turn KiCad into a 'I know what I
am doing' mode. Which meas you can place any type of via anywhere. You
should not do it though. Vias are pretty well constraint by the
manufacturer of the board. Since KiCad does not know of any layer
thickness, production technologies and such it restricts to what is a
sensible lowest common denominator."

Hmm so KiCad does not have a "PCB manufacturer constraints" input? How
handy... NOT

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by m***@gmail.com
Hmm so KiCad does not have a "PCB manufacturer constraints" input? How
handy... NOT

i've just started hacking on a 2-layer 4in x 2.5in PCB with eagle
(pre-existing, GPLv3) and hoolyy cow is it.... i mean it's a
successful program, it works, it generates gerbers and so on but jesus
christ is it utterly painful to use. no push-and-shove (at least
kicad has that now), you can't just "select" something, you have to
"Move" it first then and only then can you modify its properties by
right-mouse-buttoning on it... only problem is.... you moved it....

group selection goes wrong on a constant utterly painful monotonous basis...

i'm sort of amazed and impressed that people actually get things done with it.

l.

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[Alan Carvalho de Assis]

Hi Mike,

Post by m***@gmail.com
https://hackaday.com/2017/09/12/hackaday-prize-entry-retrofit-a-nokia/
https://hackaday.io/project/21263-nokia-3210-retro-fit-board
"With the patched I submitted you can turn KiCad into a 'I know what I
am doing' mode. Which meas you can place any type of via anywhere. You
should not do it though. Vias are pretty well constraint by the
manufacturer of the board. Since KiCad does not know of any layer
thickness, production technologies and such it restricts to what is a
sensible lowest common denominator."
Hmm so KiCad does not have a "PCB manufacturer constraints" input? How
handy... NOT

Of course it has. But you need to realize that even Gerber doesn't
have advanced information you need for more complex designs (i.e PCB
dozens of layers with different type of impedance, etc). For that you
need an EDA with IPC-2581 support that even Eagle (AFAIK) doesn't have
and many other commercial EDAs also don't.

BR,

Alan

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[Hrvoje Lasic]

Post by Alan Carvalho de Assis
Of course it has. But you need to realize that even Gerber doesn't
have advanced information you need for more complex designs (i.e PCB
dozens of layers with different type of impedance, etc). For that you
need an EDA with IPC-2581 support that even Eagle (AFAIK) doesn't have
and many other commercial EDAs also don't.

Impedance has no connection to gerbers. You agree with manufacturer PCB
type (thickens of prepag for each layer) and based on that you calculate
thickness of line to meet certain impedance. It is totally designers
responsibility.
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[Alan Carvalho de Assis]

Post by Hrvoje Lasic
Impedance has no connection to gerbers. You agree with manufacturer PCB
type (thickens of prepag for each layer) and based on that you calculate
thickness of line to meet certain impedance. It is totally designers
responsibility.

It is true for Gerber! That what I said! See page 5:

http://www.ipc2581.com/Samples/Consortium-Update%20on%20IPC-2581-V3.pdf

BR,

Alan

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[Neil Jansen]

Post by Alan Carvalho de Assis
For that you
need an EDA with IPC-2581 support that even Eagle (AFAIK) doesn't have

Although IPC-2581 is pretty new I think it's a great idea. A lot of board
houses are apparently starting to request this from customers although I've
never come across it. I'd be thrilled if all of the EDA packages started
to support it.

Some folks have asked the support team at EAGLE about it, over the years:

https://www.element14.com/community/thread/14080/l/support-for-ipc-2581?displayFullThread=true

Translation: We'll promise to ask our management, and never get back to
you...


Now, after the acquisiton by Autodesk:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/ipc-2581/td-p/7336057

Translation: No current plans to do it, no date given, but gives a
Machiavellian "Keep your eyes peeled" corporate comment.
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