Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] eoma68-project
Wolfgang Romey (hier)
2016-07-29 16:32:02 UTC
Permalink
The EOMA68-Project, which aims to build a free and ethical laptop has reached
50,000 $ funding, which is 1/3 of its aim.

I am surpized, that there is not more support from the Free Software
community. I thought Free Hardware (in combination with FRee software) is an
urgent need.

So please consider, if you can support the project.

Paul Boddie has written a blog post why:

http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/www-repo/Personal/Updates/2016/2016-07-21.html
--
Wolfgang Romey
Krokusstraße 37
47249 Duisburg

geraspora: https://pod.geraspora.de/people/9002a1416a4e4a9d
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David Boddie
2016-07-29 17:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolfgang Romey (hier)
The EOMA68-Project, which aims to build a free and ethical laptop has
reached 50,000 $ funding, which is 1/3 of its aim.
I am surpized, that there is not more support from the Free Software
community. I thought Free Hardware (in combination with FRee software) is an
urgent need.
Did you mean to send this to the FSFE Discussion list?
Post by Wolfgang Romey (hier)
So please consider, if you can support the project.
http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/www-
repo/Personal/Updates/2016/2016-07-21.html

David, not Paul, in this case. Paul is still taking it easy. :-)

I heard from another FSFE member that your messages had arrived on the
fsfe-de list, so it seems that people are taking notice.

David

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Wolfgang Romey
2016-07-29 17:47:22 UTC
Permalink
Hello DAVID :-)
Post by David Boddie
Post by Wolfgang Romey (hier)
The EOMA68-Project, which aims to build a free and ethical laptop has
reached 50,000 $ funding, which is 1/3 of its aim.
I am surpized, that there is not more support from the Free Software
community. I thought Free Hardware (in combination with FRee software) is
an urgent need.
Did you mean to send this to the FSFE Discussion list?
No, I wanted to send it to the libreplanet discussion list.
Post by David Boddie
David, not Paul, in this case. Paul is still taking it easy. :-)
Sorry.
Post by David Boddie
I heard from another FSFE member that your messages had arrived on the
fsfe-de list, so it seems that people are taking notice.
I send this emails to the fsfe de list in german and the fsfe edu list in
englisch. In the future i will send it to the libreplanet discussion list too.


Wolfgang Romey
Krokusstraße 37
47249 Duisburg

geraspora: https://pod.geraspora.de/people/9002a1416a4e4a9d
loadaverage: https://loadaverage.org/hier
tox: ***@toxme.se

Bitte Anhänge nur in freien Formaten.
Die Nachricht ist signiert, der öffentliche Schlüssel wird auf Anfrage
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2016-07-29 19:33:30 UTC
Permalink
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008504.html

yay found the fsfe-de archives, these are actually really hard to
find, they're not listed publicly and can't be found with a google
search.

l.

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Wolfgang Romey
2016-07-29 20:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Ah. I did not realize, that I cannot reach this list with the email adress I
use for the fesfe lists. So it makes no sense, sending the emails the fsfe
list (fsfe de and edu) with cc to this list.
I will stop the CCs. You can be shure, that the content of this emails is the
same as the content of the post to diaspora and loadaverage.

Wolfgang
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008504.html
yay found the fsfe-de archives, these are actually really hard to
find, they're not listed publicly and can't be found with a google
search.
l.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
--
Wolfgang Romey
Krokusstraße 37
47249 Duisburg

geraspora: https://pod.geraspora.de/people/9002a1416a4e4a9d
loadaverage: https://loadaverage.org/hier
tox: ***@toxme.se

Bitte Anhänge nur in freien Formaten.
Die Nachricht ist signiert, der öffentliche Schlüssel wird auf Anfrage
zugeleitet.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2016-07-29 20:09:14 UTC
Permalink
wolfgang, hi, i ran this one through google translate:
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008455.html

whilst i can reply cc to marcus directly, what i cannot do is reply
into the conversation at the right point in the thread (because i am
not subscribed, and gmane is now gone... argh!) - could i ask you to
forward this on, on my behalf?
The proposed processor comes from Allwinner. This manufacturer
is only known for a variety of GPL violations.
Personally, I would therefore rather refrain from support of the project.
you're wrong about the GPL violations on the A20, although i can fully
understand the misunderstanding. but that's beside the point: the
alternatives are much *much* worse. would you prefer that we used a
processor that was DRM-locked? or that had Treacherous Zone? or that
had a back-door co-processor that could do arbitrary remote
code-execution without your knowledge? or that booted up from
proprietary DRM-locked arbitrary signed AND ENCRYPTED bootloaders
either from the GPU or from the main CPU itself?

all of these processors exist with *all* of the above absolutely
terrible and totally unethical designs *BUILT IN*.

by total contrast, the Allwinner A20 is:

(a) "unbrickable". it was designed this way so that there is
**ABSOLUTELY NO WAY** that any accidental application of DRM by an
incompetent China OEM could "lock" the product containing an A20 by
mistake. turns out that this is perfect for ensuring that people can
upload their own OS.

(b) entirely GPL-compliant. this has taken a *LOT* of work by the
software libre community, pressurising allwinner and carrying out
reverse-engineering over many years. to say "i will refrain from
support of the project" is therefore, if i may be absolutely blunt,
quite disrespectful to the people who's hard work in the linux-sunxi
community has brought you this OPPORTUNITY to completely own your own
hardware, free from spyware.

the situation with allwinner is complex. there are many extremely
powerful investors who in Chinese Society are "above the pay-grade" of
the Directors in terms of China "Social Status". this is causing them
huge problems internally, despite the **DIRECT** wishes of the Vice
President!

it is a very strange situation that could really only happen in china.
far from ostracising and boycotting them, we need instead to *BUY*
products that are GPL-compliant, so that the Vice President has a way
to say, "look, these products are fully compliant with the GPL and
they're SELLING REALLY WELL".

if you boycott the entire company, that actually fucks up everything
i'm trying to achieve, and actually DESTROYS any opportunity to
introduce software freedom.

l.

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008504.html
yay found the fsfe-de archives, these are actually really hard to
find, they're not listed publicly and can't be found with a google
search.
l.
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2016-07-29 20:20:36 UTC
Permalink
hi wolfgang could you forward this for me, in reply to this message?
many thanks

http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008460.html
There is no evidence that this includes a backdoor,
but this is difficult to verify.
Therefore, I write that this is a rumor (also known as FUD).
the logic here is totally wrong, marcus, so the conclusion is false.
if it cannot be verified it MUST be assumed to be treacherous. it's
not a "maybe it is, maybe it isn't" and therefore we can dismiss it:
in the security arena, if it's ANY kind of "maybe" we have to assume
"YES".

this guideline actually comes from the Intelligence Community. the
Intelligence Community's "worst nightmare" is *NOT KNOWING* if
something is insecure. if you KNOW that something is insecure, you
can deal with it. but if you DON'T KNOW, you must absolutely,
absolutely assume the worst case scenario.

the FSF's rules are very very clear: if the source is not available,
it cannot be trusted - period. there's no way round that. making
compromises along the lines of "we're not sure" is not in the
slightest bit a possibility that can be considered.

remember: Intel's own "spokeman" will be TOTALLY cut off from the
people who will have had the "gag order" slapped round their mouths
when the NSA came round and said, "hello, we don't want to make it
difficult for you to get Export Licenses for Intel Processors, but
we're gonna have to have that secret key on the backdoor processor.
oh, and if you ever talk about this conversation to anyone, you get a
one-way ticket to guantanamo bay".

i hope you don't mind me pointing this out, marcus, but i am actually
very surprised - and a little alarmed - to have to be explaining this
to someone on the FSF Europe's own mailing lists.

l.

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Wolfgang Romey
2016-07-30 14:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Hallo Luke,

i think it makes no sense forwarding your email to the list and to marcus. I
have the impression, that marcus cannot accept the fact that he is wrong.

Never the less, i will use your arguments on the mailing list.

Wolfgang
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008455.html
whilst i can reply cc to marcus directly, what i cannot do is reply
into the conversation at the right point in the thread (because i am
not subscribed, and gmane is now gone... argh!) - could i ask you to
forward this on, on my behalf?
The proposed processor comes from Allwinner. This manufacturer
is only known for a variety of GPL violations.
Personally, I would therefore rather refrain from support of the project.
you're wrong about the GPL violations on the A20, although i can fully
understand the misunderstanding. but that's beside the point: the
alternatives are much *much* worse. would you prefer that we used a
processor that was DRM-locked? or that had Treacherous Zone? or that
had a back-door co-processor that could do arbitrary remote
code-execution without your knowledge? or that booted up from
proprietary DRM-locked arbitrary signed AND ENCRYPTED bootloaders
either from the GPU or from the main CPU itself?
all of these processors exist with *all* of the above absolutely
terrible and totally unethical designs *BUILT IN*.
(a) "unbrickable". it was designed this way so that there is
**ABSOLUTELY NO WAY** that any accidental application of DRM by an
incompetent China OEM could "lock" the product containing an A20 by
mistake. turns out that this is perfect for ensuring that people can
upload their own OS.
(b) entirely GPL-compliant. this has taken a *LOT* of work by the
software libre community, pressurising allwinner and carrying out
reverse-engineering over many years. to say "i will refrain from
support of the project" is therefore, if i may be absolutely blunt,
quite disrespectful to the people who's hard work in the linux-sunxi
community has brought you this OPPORTUNITY to completely own your own
hardware, free from spyware.
the situation with allwinner is complex. there are many extremely
powerful investors who in Chinese Society are "above the pay-grade" of
the Directors in terms of China "Social Status". this is causing them
huge problems internally, despite the **DIRECT** wishes of the Vice
President!
it is a very strange situation that could really only happen in china.
far from ostracising and boycotting them, we need instead to *BUY*
products that are GPL-compliant, so that the Vice President has a way
to say, "look, these products are fully compliant with the GPL and
they're SELLING REALLY WELL".
if you boycott the entire company, that actually fucks up everything
i'm trying to achieve, and actually DESTROYS any opportunity to
introduce software freedom.
l.
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-de/2016-July/008504.html
yay found the fsfe-de archives, these are actually really hard to
find, they're not listed publicly and can't be found with a google
search.
l.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
--
Wolfgang Romey
Krokusstraße 37
47249 Duisburg

geraspora: https://pod.geraspora.de/people/9002a1416a4e4a9d
loadaverage: https://loadaverage.org/hier
tox: ***@toxme.se

Bitte Anhänge nur in freien Formaten.
Die Nachricht ist signiert, der öffentliche Schlüssel wird auf Anfrage
zugeleitet.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2016-07-30 14:25:25 UTC
Permalink
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
Post by Wolfgang Romey
Hallo Luke,
i think it makes no sense forwarding your email to the list and to marcus. I
have the impression, that marcus cannot accept the fact that he is wrong.
i'm going to be really, really blunt. marcus's perspective is to be
frank bloody dangerous. i have no idea why he's even actually on the
fsfe's lists *at all*. i've written him off already, but what *is*
really useful is that his ignorance allows an opportunity to educate
others.
Post by Wolfgang Romey
Never the less, i will use your arguments on the mailing list.
i think that's really, really important. i was really shocked that
someone *WHO SUPPORTS THE FSF* can be so blatantly ignorant of the
effects of the intel backdoor co-processor, unable to effectively do
simple security-threat analysis, and to be unable to do simple logical
analysis of the detrimental consequences to the FSF of boycotting.

i'd understand if it was somebody who is *not* on an FSF supporter
mailing list, that's perfectly understandable, but someone who's an
active supporter should f*****g well know better.

l.

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David Boddie
2016-07-29 19:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolfgang Romey
Hello DAVID :-)
:-)
Post by Wolfgang Romey
Post by David Boddie
Did you mean to send this to the FSFE Discussion list?
No, I wanted to send it to the libreplanet discussion list.
Ah, that's a list I'd forgotten about.
Post by Wolfgang Romey
Post by David Boddie
David, not Paul, in this case. Paul is still taking it easy. :-)
Sorry.
No problem. It happens more than you might realise.

You're doing a great job getting the word out, by the way!

David

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