[Arm-netbook] Alt Webpage & Logo Combo

http://rhombus-tech.aross.me/webpagealt/

...

I combined to logos people made and also made some little mods of my
own. i feel quite happy with the outcome :) feedback good to hear, what
ya would like to do , how ya feel..

I'd just like to point out that I, and perhaps other people (and still some
systems) have a problem with light text on a darker background.

It might just be my eyes, and I can usually overcome it by selecting the text
in question, which makes it then appear as a dark text on a light background.

There was, and probably still is one or more real bugs that cause the problem.

I'll try to describe it, in my layman's terms. It has to do with the function
that changes the intensity of pixels to make characters look "smoother". I
guess there are several instances of a function like that, in different places.

The problem is that, in at least some of those, there was a built-in bias (my
choice of words--it wasn't an explicit fudge factor or such) such that when
dark text is rendered on a lighter background, the function works correctly
(or reasonably well), while when the function is applied to light text on a
darker background, the function bias tends to make more pixels match the
background, thus the strokes of the character look thinner (and are thinner,
because more pixels match the background or closer to the background) than to
the color of the text.

I'm not even sure where those kind of functions are applied--I guess it is in
the client computer (the computer ultimately displaying the text for the
user), and there may be more than one such function on any give client
computer (for rendering from different apps).

Maybe the problem is in X, and maybe it has been fixed there (or in it's
successor, which I can't remember the name of).

Anyway, just wanted to point that out for your consideration.

I've tried staring at your page, with the text selected and not selected and I
definitely have trouble reading it unselected (i.e., light text on dark
background), but I can't decide whether is it just my eyes or not (I've read
dark text on light backgrounds a lot).

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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)

2018-02-02 16:42:16 UTC

http://rhombus-tech.aross.me/webpagealt/

...

I combined to logos people made and also made some little mods of my
own. i feel quite happy with the outcome :) feedback good to hear, what
ya would like to do , how ya feel..

I'd just like to point out that I, and perhaps other people (and still some
systems) have a problem with light text on a darker background.
[…]

If you are using GNOME, try fixing the font settings in
gnome-tweak-tool (subpixel rendering etc.). Either way, others
recommend dark text on light background as well:

https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/53264/dark-or-white-color-theme-is-better-for-the-eyes#

Regards,
Florian

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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-02 17:29:37 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd just like to point out that I, and perhaps other people (and still
some systems) have a problem with light text on a darker background.
[…]

If you are using GNOME, try fixing the font settings in
gnome-tweak-tool (subpixel rendering etc.).

Florian,

Thanks! (I use kde.)

Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Either way, others
https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/53264/dark-or-white-color-theme-is-b
etter-for-the-eyes#

Thanks also for that--interesting points that I didn't consider (still
supporting dark text on light background), and, I do have astigmatism, which
is probably a factor as well.

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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-02 19:34:17 UTC

http://rhombus-tech.aross.me/webpagealt/

...

I combined to logos people made and also made some little mods of my
own. i feel quite happy with the outcome :) feedback good to hear, what
ya would like to do , how ya feel..

I'd just like to point out that I, and perhaps other people (and still
some systems) have a problem with light text on a darker background.

Re Logo, hmm idk what to do. might i try a darker yellow or something...
hmm
Re Webpage background, heh yea im the opposite, i find it harder to read
a white/light background. saying that my email client is set to use
light blue... lately ive been using owl firefox addon[1] for changing
websites themes to a dark one. found it to give me relief from eye
strain :).
I agree the blue text colour has been on my mind, not sure what to
change it too. hmm when i feel like it ill have a play with different
colour schemes.
Maybe it should be a status quo classic light back dark text colour
scheme which people like me use addons to invert the colours. i found it
fun to think: "bold project, bold colour scheme". hehe but ok, ill try
and balance peoples needs.

Thanks! I do find that a non-white background is easier on my eyes than pure
white--I've used various shades of beige, yellow, and rose to good effect--
still with black text.

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Hendrik Boom

2018-02-03 02:30:10 UTC

http://rhombus-tech.aross.me/webpagealt/

...

I combined to logos people made and also made some little mods of my
own. i feel quite happy with the outcome :) feedback good to hear, what
ya would like to do , how ya feel..

I'd just like to point out that I, and perhaps other people (and still some
systems) have a problem with light text on a darker background.

I prefer light text on a dark background. Especially at night, when the
screen otherwise becomes glaringly bright. It also reduces flicker on
slow-refresh monitors.

And as for the letter-thinning you experience with white text -- that's
exactly what I perceive with white text! I think it is an effect of
slight lack of focus. with a bright background it eaats into the letter
shapes, but if the shapes become a little blurry they are still quie
readable.

I son't understand how the opposite effect which you report arises.

-- hendrik

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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-03 14:02:10 UTC

Post by Hendrik Boom

Re Webpage background, heh yea im the opposite, i find it harder to read
a white/light background. saying that my email client is set to use
light blue... lately ive been using owl firefox addon[1] for changing
websites themes to a dark one. found it to give me relief from eye
strain :).

I prefer light text on a dark background. Especially at night, when the
screen otherwise becomes glaringly bright. It also reduces flicker on
slow-refresh monitors.
And as for the letter-thinning you experience with white text -- that's
exactly what I perceive with white text! I think it is an effect of
slight lack of focus. with a bright background it eaats into the letter
shapes, but if the shapes become a little blurry they are still quie
readable.
I son't understand how the opposite effect which you report arises.

I guess you mean why I see that thinning effect with light text on a dark
background? Interesting.

I guess it could be:
* our eyes trained differently
* our eyes function differently--I have astigmatism, but it is corrected by
my glasses so I don't think that is a factor
* different tools on our computers render the fonts differently? (I'm not
sure I know what, in the end, actually renders the fonts on my computer--is it
X (assuming my Wheezy installation is using X), or is it different for different
apps?

I did find a bug report not too long ago for some application which actually
confirmed the bias I described, and described how that worked (in general
terms)--I'll make a cursory search or try to remember where I found that, and,
if I do, I'll post it here.

Of course, the one URL which Florian posted did provide some reasons why dark
text on a light background is generallly better for your eyes (iirc the
article).

https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/53264/dark-or-white-color-theme-is-
better-for-the-eyes#

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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-03 14:14:45 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
I did find a bug report not too long ago for some application which
actually confirmed the bias I described, and described how that worked (in
general terms)--I'll make a cursory search or try to remember where I
found that, and, if I do, I'll post it here.

Ahh, that was easier than I expected--here are my notes after reading that bug
report (some time ago)--I did not re-read it today to see if anything has
changed. The comments immediately after the [[<URL>][<Page Title>]] are my
own, the things after the ` are quotations from the bug report.

* [[https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13431][Bug 13431: Summary:
Gamma not taken into account, white on black hard to read]]--this confirms my
observation of the problem, but my explanation (iirc) predates gamma
correction (iir/uc)--my theory of the cause of the problem is that anti-
aliasing sort of "assumed" that the normal view would be black on white, when
it was applied to white on black, it should have somehow considered the other
"color" (black or white) to be the basis--because it didn't, fewer pixels are
colored white when viewing white on black as opposed to the number of pixels
colored black when viewing black on white. I don't know if the problem still
exists--it probably does in at least some places, and, I still have more
difficulty reading white (or a light color) on a black (or dark background).
`
When doing antialiasing, fontconfig-based renderers do not take gamma into
account and assume a linear color space. This make black on white text difficult
to read at small font sizez.

...

The reason is that the stems of the glyphs are thinner than a whole pixel.
Therefore, they get a fractionnal value. For example, the pixels on the lower
part of the stem of the 'f' get the pixel value 151/255 in black on white, and
104/255 in white on black (and 104+151=255). With the usual 2.2 gamma, this
makes respectively 32% and 14%, which gives a contrast of 68% for black on
white, and 14% for white on black.
'

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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-03 15:51:45 UTC

Ahh, I intend that this be my last post on the subject, because it is pretty
much OT for this list, but I re-read the bug report and saw a paragraph that
was there before, but seems to have sunk in now:

`
Fontconfig has nothing to do with presenting the glyphs to the user, it simply
selects the fonts. The bug you are seeing (and, yes, I agree that it is a bug
even if white text on a black background is wrong) is due to limitations in
various rendering libraries, like Xrender, cairo et al.
'

Post by r***@gmail.com
I did find a bug report not too long ago for some application which
actually confirmed the bias I described, and described how that worked
(in general terms)--I'll make a cursory search or try to remember where
I found that, and, if I do, I'll post it here.

Ahh, that was easier than I expected--here are my notes after reading that
bug report (some time ago)--I did not re-read it today to see if anything
has changed. The comments immediately after the [[<URL>][<Page Title>]]
are my own, the things after the ` are quotations from the bug report.
Summary: Gamma not taken into account, white on black hard to read]]--this
confirms my observation of the problem, but my explanation (iirc) predates
gamma correction (iir/uc)--my theory of the cause of the problem is that
anti- aliasing sort of "assumed" that the normal view would be black on
white, when it was applied to white on black, it should have somehow
considered the other "color" (black or white) to be the basis--because it
didn't, fewer pixels are colored white when viewing white on black as
opposed to the number of pixels colored black when viewing black on white.
I don't know if the problem still exists--it probably does in at least
some places, and, I still have more difficulty reading white (or a light
color) on a black (or dark background). `
When doing antialiasing, fontconfig-based renderers do not take gamma into
account and assume a linear color space. This make black on white text
difficult to read at small font sizez.
...
The reason is that the stems of the glyphs are thinner than a whole pixel.
Therefore, they get a fractionnal value. For example, the pixels on the
lower part of the stem of the 'f' get the pixel value 151/255 in black on
white, and 104/255 in white on black (and 104+151=255). With the usual 2.2
gamma, this makes respectively 32% and 14%, which gives a contrast of 68%
for black on white, and 14% for white on black.
'

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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)

2018-02-03 16:10:06 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
* our eyes trained differently
* our eyes function differently--I have astigmatism, but it is corrected by
my glasses so I don't think that is a factor
* different tools on our computers render the fonts differently? (I'm not
sure I know what, in the end, actually renders the fonts on my computer--is it
X (assuming my Wheezy installation is using X), or is it different for different
apps?

X is only used for font rendering in old applications like xterm.
Modern applications on GNU operating systems use HarfBuzz.

If yours is a technical issue, it is either your screen settings
(brightness/contrast), font settings (like antialiasing, subpixel
rendering) or really a bug in font rendering. That said, I set my
desktop to use larger than default fonts so I don’t have issues.

I believe websites should use either default colors or custom colored
dark on light text like most websites. Those who don’t like it can
override the stylesheet colors like they have to do for most websites,
i.e.

https://superuser.com/questions/318912/how-to-override-the-css-of-a-site-in-firefox-with-usercontent-css
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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-03 18:23:58 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
* our eyes trained differently
* our eyes function differently--I have astigmatism, but it is corrected by
my glasses so I don't think that is a factor
* different tools on our computers render the fonts differently? (I'm not
sure I know what, in the end, actually renders the fonts on my
computer--is it X (assuming my Wheezy installation is using X), or is it
different for different apps?

X is only used for font rendering in old applications like xterm.
Modern applications on GNU operating systems use HarfBuzz.

I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but I'm interested--I tried ps -Al }
grep HarfBuzz (and harfbuzz) on my Debian Wheezy system with kde--no sign of
it--does KDE use something else?

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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-03 18:31:28 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but I'm interested--I tried ps -Al }
grep HarfBuzz (and harfbuzz) on my Debian Wheezy system with kde--no sign
of it--does KDE use something else?

Oh, now I see--from Wikipedia:

`
Most applications don't use HarfBuzz directly, but use a UI toolkit library
that integrates with it. HarfBuzz is used by the UI libraries of GNOME, KDE,
Chrome OS, Android[2] and Java;[6] and directly by applications Firefox,
LibreOffice and Inkscape.[2]
'
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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)

2018-02-03 18:32:37 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
* our eyes trained differently
* our eyes function differently--I have astigmatism, but it is corrected by
my glasses so I don't think that is a factor
* different tools on our computers render the fonts differently? (I'm not
sure I know what, in the end, actually renders the fonts on my
computer--is it X (assuming my Wheezy installation is using X), or is it
different for different apps?

X is only used for font rendering in old applications like xterm.
Modern applications on GNU operating systems use HarfBuzz.

I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but I'm interested--I tried ps -Al }
grep HarfBuzz (and harfbuzz) on my Debian Wheezy system with kde--no sign of
it--does KDE use something else?

KDE uses Qt which uses HarfBuzz. You can see it in the dependencies at

https://packages.debian.org/sid/libqt5gui5

However HarfBuzz is not a separate process but runs as part of the
graphical application (it is a library), so you do not see it in
ps -Al.
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r***@gmail.com

2018-02-04 04:33:07 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but I'm interested--I tried ps -Al
} grep HarfBuzz (and harfbuzz) on my Debian Wheezy system with kde--no
sign of it--does KDE use something else?

Thanks! (Subsequently I looked up HarfBuzz on Wikipedia and got a little
better understanding.)

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Hendrik Boom

2018-02-05 01:28:19 UTC

Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
I believe websites should use either default colors or custom colored
dark on light text like most websites. Those who don’t like it can
override the stylesheet colors like they have to do for most websites,
i.e.

Not as easy to do as it should be. I once changed the default browser
settings to be white foreground and black background. I came to hate
the websites that override the default foreground without overriding the
default background or vice versa. I end up with dark on black or light
on white.

-- hendrik

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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)

2018-02-05 07:01:14 UTC

Post by Hendrik Boom

Did you use !important for overriding? I did not try it for long, but
I believe this CSS should override *all* sites:

* {
color : white !important;
background-color : black !important;
}

a {
color : cyan !important;
}

(See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Cascade though I
would hope there are addons out there for light-on-dark text that do
not require CSS knowledge.)

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c***@sasktel.net

2018-02-06 14:32:00 UTC

On 18.2.5 1:1, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
~

Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
~ I
would hope there are addons out there for light-on-dark text that do
not require CSS knowledge.)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dark-background-light-text/

Usable, though it seems that some sites do not work with it. 4 different ways to try to
make the page be light on dark, plus <Disabled> as a 5th mode. granular to domain or page or
other. can be disabled <<globally>>. has a tool-bar--button.

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Hendrik Boom

2018-02-05 01:39:25 UTC