[Arm-netbook] Libreboot and EOMA68

[Paul Boddie]

I found this message...

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-08/msg00048.html

...via the Libreboot site...

https://libreboot.org/

...which currently features the following text:

"Please back the EOMA68 libre laptop. They are seeking RYF endorsement from
the FSF and the FSF have published an article about them already. All they
need is to win backing for the project, so that they can start shipping. If
they succeed, we want to integrate the firmware for it into libreboot. See
this mailing list post."

The message itself includes this:

"If you can afford to buy one, please back that campaign. I will be
doing so too. We're working on integrating a new build system in
libreboot which should make uboot and other boot firmware besides
coreboot easier to merge. EOMA68 is the first non-coreboot target that
I'm interested in for the next release of libreboot."

Paul

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[m016fec3]

I published it on diaspora*, gnusocial and the fefe-de-mailing-list.

Wolfgang

Post by Paul Boddie
I found this message...
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-08/msg00048.html
...via the Libreboot site...
https://libreboot.org/
"Please back the EOMA68 libre laptop. They are seeking RYF endorsement from
the FSF and the FSF have published an article about them already. All they
need is to win backing for the project, so that they can start shipping. If
they succeed, we want to integrate the firmware for it into libreboot. See
this mailing list post."
"If you can afford to buy one, please back that campaign. I will be
doing so too. We're working on integrating a new build system in
libreboot which should make uboot and other boot firmware besides
coreboot easier to merge. EOMA68 is the first non-coreboot target that
I'm interested in for the next release of libreboot."
Paul
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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
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Post by Paul Boddie
I found this message...
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-08/msg00048.html

cooool! they're interested in porting libreboot to the A20.

l.

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[Christian Kellermann]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Paul Boddie
I found this message...
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-08/msg00048.html

cooool! they're interested in porting libreboot to the A20.

That would not make much sense would it? Apart from the U-Boot stuff
to setup the A20, what good is a BIOS replacement on ARM machines?

Maybe I am getting it all wrong though...

The post in itself is awesome!

Cheers,

Christian

--
May you be peaceful, may you live in safety, may you be free from
suffering, and may you live with ease.

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Christian Kellermann

Post by Christian Kellermann

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
cooool! they're interested in porting libreboot to the A20.

That would not make much sense would it? Apart from the U-Boot stuff
to setup the A20, what good is a BIOS replacement on ARM machines?

i guess we'll find out what's possible.

l.

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[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

Post by Christian Kellermann

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
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Post by Paul Boddie
I found this message...
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-08/msg00048.html

cooool! they're interested in porting libreboot to the A20.

That would not make much sense would it? Apart from the U-Boot stuff
to setup the A20, what good is a BIOS replacement on ARM machines?

I asked the same in coreboot list years ago when they started to port
coreboot to ARM. I hardly remember but the point might have been to
enable UEFI (both for functionality and possibly peripheral
initialisation), or take other coreboot payloads, like SO verification
and so on. There is coreboot for several ARM processors, in most if
not all ARM chromebooks, at least the tegra K1 and rockchip 3268).

But what I understood from the message you link is that libreboot is a
distribution of coreboot (which cleans out the proprietary parts, etc.
because it has other goals, but also adds some tested configurations
and build infraestructure for the toolchain, coreboot, payloads,
etc.). But they are considering in the future to be a distribution
of coreboot _and u-boot_. I don't understand they want to port coreboot
to the A20, but to include u-boot (for the A-20 or more generally?) into
libreboot. See if payloads can be reused for u-boot, or at least if
the build infraestructure and documentation can include it.

The goal of libreboot is distributing firmware for as many computers
as possible that allows to use as much of them as possible with 100%
free software. Usually ARM hardware is not too usable with 100%
free software (except OMAP, freescale, and maybe some others) so u-boot
was not too useful for the computers they support until now. Leah
just knew of an ARM computer that might work with 100% free software
and just thought her goal is more easy to achieve incorporating u-boot
than porting coreboot to the A-20 and then updating the coreboot version
in libreboot to get that support.

There might be the idea to port SeaBIOS to ARM. I can't outright
dismiss it, but I can't think right now of what advantages it would
have. The point is supporting legacy interfaces (to be able to boot
from a CD, or paint to the screen or read from the keyboard form an OS
without an specific driver for the GPU or KBD...) But any legacy code
still calling BIOS would be x86, I guess. So once the BIOS is ported
you would have to port the BIOS client applications or OSes.


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[Christian Kellermann]

* Xavi Drudis Ferran <***@tinet.cat> [160822 21:45]:
[excellent explanation snipped]

Thanks for clarifying! This makes sense to me now!

Kind regards,

Christian

--
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suffering, and may you live with ease.

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I asked the same in coreboot list years ago when they started to port
coreboot to ARM. I hardly remember but the point might have been to
enable UEFI (both for functionality and possibly peripheral
initialisation),

UEFI is extremely rare in the ARM world - the only SoC i know of that
implements it is the iMX6.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
or take other coreboot payloads,

that makes sense.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
The goal of libreboot is distributing firmware for as many computers
as possible that allows to use as much of them as possible with 100%
free software.

... but if you don't *need* any firmware...

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
There might be the idea to port SeaBIOS to ARM. I can't outright
dismiss it, but I can't think right now of what advantages it would
have.

mmm... having a more "standard" VGA / login would be nice... but
normally you have that to change settings such as "which hard drive to
boot from". there aren't any hard drives... :)

so, we'll see how it goes.

l.

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[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
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Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I asked the same in coreboot list years ago when they started to port
coreboot to ARM. I hardly remember but the point might have been to
enable UEFI (both for functionality and possibly peripheral
initialisation),

UEFI is extremely rare in the ARM world - the only SoC i know of that
implements it is the iMX6.

Maybe the ARM chromebooks use UEFI, I don't remember.

Anyway, some ARM boards start to take PCI peripherals, and then you have to
enumerate, allocate resources, initialise, run option ROMs (hopefully optional
or free, but often not)... Coreboot already had this kind of stuff done.
I don't know if with u-boot you could attach a sata controller to the PCI
port of an ARM board and boot from a sata disk attached to that controller.

Things like this, I think. But I don't really remember well.


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[Russell Hyer]

Neat, I emailed the guy behind libreboot thinkpads in the UK (and this
message tallies with that,though I didn't comment as to ARM libreboot
changes) that he should support the campaign.

Russell
for my sins, doing dev work on an apple mac :)

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I asked the same in coreboot list years ago when they started to port
coreboot to ARM. I hardly remember but the point might have been to
enable UEFI (both for functionality and possibly peripheral
initialisation),

UEFI is extremely rare in the ARM world - the only SoC i know of that
implements it is the iMX6.

Maybe the ARM chromebooks use UEFI, I don't remember.
Anyway, some ARM boards start to take PCI peripherals, and then you have to
enumerate, allocate resources, initialise, run option ROMs (hopefully optional
or free, but often not)... Coreboot already had this kind of stuff done.
I don't know if with u-boot you could attach a sata controller to the PCI
port of an ARM board and boot from a sata disk attached to that controller.
Things like this, I think. But I don't really remember well.
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[Russell Hyer]

I mean: minifree.org - that's where I have my thinkpad / libreboot
from - and the guy I emailed last week

Post by Russell Hyer
Neat, I emailed the guy behind libreboot thinkpads in the UK (and this
message tallies with that,though I didn't comment as to ARM libreboot
changes) that he should support the campaign.
Russell
for my sins, doing dev work on an apple mac :)

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I asked the same in coreboot list years ago when they started to port
coreboot to ARM. I hardly remember but the point might have been to
enable UEFI (both for functionality and possibly peripheral
initialisation),

UEFI is extremely rare in the ARM world - the only SoC i know of that
implements it is the iMX6.

Maybe the ARM chromebooks use UEFI, I don't remember.
Anyway, some ARM boards start to take PCI peripherals, and then you have to
enumerate, allocate resources, initialise, run option ROMs (hopefully optional
or free, but often not)... Coreboot already had this kind of stuff done.
I don't know if with u-boot you could attach a sata controller to the PCI
port of an ARM board and boot from a sata disk attached to that controller.
Things like this, I think. But I don't really remember well.
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[Nick Hardiman]

I would guess UEFI support is more about the data center market than about technical capability.

ARM want to get more chips into Data Centers and brought out specifications called SBSA (Server Base System Architecture) and SBBR (Server Base Boot Requirements), for suppliers to stick to. SBBR names a bunch of required things, including UEFI.

SBSA is meant to make large scale management of ARM-based hardware more uniform and less scary for DC purchasers. Standards compliance is reassuring for anyone who doesn’t fully understand what they are getting themselves into, and in the computer world nobody fully understands what they are getting themselves into. Take EOMA68, for example. That’s a great standard to comply to.

But who knows, I could be way off the mark here.

ARM, SBSA, UEFI, and ACPI
By Jonathan Corbet
February 5, 2014
https://lwn.net/Articles/584123/

Post by Russell Hyer
I mean: minifree.org - that's where I have my thinkpad / libreboot
from - and the guy I emailed last week

Post by Russell Hyer
Neat, I emailed the guy behind libreboot thinkpads in the UK (and this
message tallies with that,though I didn't comment as to ARM libreboot
changes) that he should support the campaign.
Russell
for my sins, doing dev work on an apple mac :)

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I asked the same in coreboot list years ago when they started to port
coreboot to ARM. I hardly remember but the point might have been to
enable UEFI (both for functionality and possibly peripheral
initialisation),

UEFI is extremely rare in the ARM world - the only SoC i know of that
implements it is the iMX6.

Maybe the ARM chromebooks use UEFI, I don't remember.
Anyway, some ARM boards start to take PCI peripherals, and then you have to
enumerate, allocate resources, initialise, run option ROMs (hopefully optional
or free, but often not)... Coreboot already had this kind of stuff done.
I don't know if with u-boot you could attach a sata controller to the PCI
port of an ARM board and boot from a sata disk attached to that controller.
Things like this, I think. But I don't really remember well.
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