Post by Normand ChamberlandPost by jahI understand your frustration, Normand,
You do not know me, jah, therefore you cannot possibly understand how
*infuriated* I am. To say that I am still seething with cold fury would be
an understatement.
normand, please don't feel that way: it's not worth the harm that it
causes. i know because i've had standing-alpha-waves occur many times
and they literally made me dizzy and sick to my stomach.
Post by Normand ChamberlandOf course I know that Github is not the "ideal" channel to share files (to
say the least). I do not need this list's continued condescending lessons on
the matter.
please, take it as absolute that in no way is anyone here intending
to be condescending towards *anyone*. if however there is a
misunderstanding as to the priorities, it would be completely remiss
to leave it for those people *who do not* understand, to not explain
it. this is a list with now around 900 people, there are 2,500
backers many of whom will *not* understand the importance of sticking
to ethical principles, to whom it *will* be necessary to explain them
from first principles.
it is therefore implicitly understood -i trust - that such
explanations are there *for archive and reference purposes*, they're
*not* there to "teach you how to suck eggs", or for the purposes of
condescention, or other denigrating purpose which is directly against
the whole damn point of this exercise.
Post by Normand ChamberlandBut I spent a good part of that night whipping out these files,
and it was well past midnight, I was tired and I still had to publish these
files; I naively thought it was more important to get the files out there
for discussion than to delay one more day to find an alternate hosting
solution
... yehhh, sadly, if a project's based on libre principles and there
are backers that have _specifically_ funded the project because of
that, ignoring those principles - for *any* contributor - really isn't
an option, normand. the irrevocable damage to the project's
reputation *and* that of the FSF who are trusting me with *their*
reputation... the consequences just don't bear thinking about.
Post by Normand Chamberland- as I already had a Github account. With the idea to transfer
everything to a more acceptable server soon after.
norman i've said i'm sorry that i was too exhausted and too ill at
the time to mention the offer to provide you with access to my server,
what more am i supposed to do?
Post by Normand ChamberlandOnly to read lkcl's message at awakening after a shortened night of sleep.
ah... now i understand.
Post by Normand ChamberlandThat will teach me to try to help.
Post by jahi don't _enjoy_ asking people not to use proprietary services,
You didn't ask, you *demanded* in no uncertain terms, such as
***unacceptable*** and ***immediately***.
yes. i did apologise. i can't apologise again enough for that, and
for not mentioning that i have had available libre hosting services
for 10 years, now.
Post by Normand ChamberlandI would have understood if you
wrote "I would really appreciate it if you took it down at your earliest
convenience". But what makes me most mad is your intolerable accusation that
through my action I was bringing "disrepute" to your project.
unfortunately it really does risk bringing the project into disrepute
[and i was too exhausted at the time to write anything but the
briefest and most immediate of response].
if the backers who expect this project to be developed using libre
hosting were to find out that they're expected to download files from
github then i'd be completely fucked. i explained (in a message that
i believe from your response you haven't yet seen) in an extremely
damaging hypothetical scenario as to why.
Post by Normand ChamberlandI find this assertion not only asinine but *utterly unacceptable*, it is an
*attack* on my own reputation that I will not soon forget nor forgive.
we misunderstood, we cleared it up, no harm has been done to the
project (because you took the publicly-published files offline from
github immediately, despite being angry for having been asked to do
so), so the envisaged hypothetical future scenario i described is not
going to happen.
so there are no attacks, no harm (intended, implicit or explicit) to
your reputation, okay?
a bit of reflection when you're not so white-hot angry and thus
highly likely to mis-read what i've written will, i trust, allow you
to appreciate that.
Post by Normand ChamberlandTo make it worse, you're now saying that had you known about it months after
the fact, you'd have considered it "nothing to stress about". That's plain
adding insult to injury.
eh? what?? you must be misunderstanding: let me try to work out why.
* files were published on github (publicly, not private paid-for)
* link sent publicly to list (which is accessible to backers and also
permanently archived)
* link sent at the time where it would result in the highest amount
of attention
* thus would result in huge numbers of (libre) backers noticing that
proprietary services had been utilised.
* probability that someone would complain: unacceptably high
vs HYPOTHETICAL scenario
* files published on github (publicly, not private paid-for)
* *PRIVATE* emails sent to interested parties
* link *NOT* published on list (which is accessible to backers and
also permanently archived)
* casework developed, finalised and backers received their casework.
* total number of backers noticing that proprietary services had been
utilised: zero.
* total number of backers noticing over the next 6 months: zero
* total number of backers noticing over the next 18 months: probably zero
* probability that any given backer would complain: negligeable
does that help clarify the difference between the scenario that
actually occurred and a hypothetical scenario where i would "grumble
but not make anything of it"? in that *hypothetical* scenario i would
be assuming that it is *months* after the files had been developed and
the casework sent out to them.
Post by Normand ChamberlandI've done my share to promote free software as my skills allow me, in the
past 7 years spending _thousands of hours_ helping quite possibly hundreds
of people to learn FreeCAD, translating it, writing up documentation,
packaging it and providing an experienced CAD user's point of view to its
developers.
I am not dedicating most of my free time to be treated that way.
yyehhhh it's a bitch, isn't it? i met someone around 1998/1999 who
said, when redhat did their IPO, "oh, i wrote a mouse howto for the
linux kernel and i got enough money from the redhat IPO to be able to
pay off my mortgage in full. you wrote over a hundred thousand lines
of reverse-engineering code for samba and dedicated four years of your
life to that, you *must* have got more than me, right?"
and he was terribly embarrassed to learn that i had received
absolutely fuck-all.
i was particularly pissed off, a year later, to learn that jeremy
allison had managed to get his brother (who's not written a single
line of free software source code in his life) onto the VA Linux IPO -
one of the highest recorded single-day jumps in the history of NASDAQ
from its private IPO of $14 to a whopping $330 per share - but they
neglected to include me in that, as well.
there's this terribly strange cognitive disconnect between people
like us providing a *HUGE* service to others... and then not being
financially rewarded for doing so because the people we're helping
think "oh, it's free, there's nothing to stop me from taking, taking,
taking.... so that's what i'll do. huh... nobody stopped me so...
i'll just carry on".
proprietary software, there's the "sale of contract" - the
opportunity is presented and *requires* that people hand over money
which helps (we assume) to support the continued development of that
software. or at least rewards the developers for having worked on it
up to that point.
point is: i know how you feel. it's shitty, isn't it?
... now imagine having gone through that shitty treatment for OVER
TWENTY FUCKING YEARS, normand, where time and time again you get
slammed and taken advantage of not just by the users but BY FREE
SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TEAMS AS WELL.
i have a long memory: there is a list of people whom have helped me
out, i cannot begin to describe how grateful to them i am. i maintain
that list because when there is a financially-stable self-sustaining
business that will allow me to fund them, i will be contacting them
and will just simply... send them a cheque with no conditions
attached.
but i have learned - through people fucking well taking advantage
time and time again - that setting up a *software* company alone based
on software libre principles - is totally pointless.
that's why i've got into *hardware* because it is *hardware* that
people, quite obviously, have to pay for. they get a physical item;
that physical item has to have been manufactured. there therefore
*has* to be an exchange / reward: there is no "disconnect" as outlined
*and required* by software libre licenses.
but if that hardware goes out with any kind of taint from proprietary
business practices... if i in any way copy those people whom i despise
for them having sucked software libre dry and taken advantage of so
many of us... i can't bring myself to do that.
i don't tell people very often these days of the consequences that
the unethical decisions that various proprietary businesses have had
for me, when over decades they've made hundreds of millions of dollars
based on my work AND HAVEN'T PAID ME A CENT. having to work on a
building site, sleeping on-site in a garage for three months, ending
up homeless for two years at one point, and living in dangerous
properties, putting my family at risk, because they're within the
available budget (literally a tenth of what most people would deem to
be an acceptable income). these aren't fun things to talk about, and
the long-term effects they've had on my health... well, you know from
the evidence of how i fail to respond in time to stop things like
what's happened....
so i'll say it again. *i'm sorry* normand. please understand that
i've been through more shit over the past two decades thanks to
software libre than most people would be able to withstand. or
understand. or believe. those experiences underscore what i'm doing,
now, motivating me to make fucking sure no-one else ever has to go
through that kind of hell, motivating me like you simply would not
believe to undo as much of the harm that proprietary businesses have
done as i can possibly manage.
but *thanks* to that damage i'm operating from a position where you
don't know me, because my name's not "the successful and highly
respected linus torvalds", my name's not "jeremy allison or andrew
tridgell the highly respected developers of samba (two of the people
who took advantage of my work, to their personal benefit, btw)", my
name's not "bruce perens the highly respected software libre
advocate", or any other person whom you would respect for their
success and their reputation which came from that success.
anyway. can we please move on. if you don't want to help i'll
understand, you have that right. but it would be very sad if you left
based on a cascading series of misunderstandings because both of us
are just... tired. i leave it with you, ok?
Post by Normand ChamberlandPost by jahnorman, i haven't checked if you're still subscribed to the list
You will address me with my proper name please. That's Normand with a D.
sorry normand, for mistyping.
Post by Normand ChamberlandObviously I have not unsubscribed *yet*.
I've been mulling over the matter over the weekend. I'm not sure I want to
be associated with this project anymore. I've already modified my Crowd
Supply account so I would no longer be listed as a backer. I've
procrastinated about it, but I am leaning toward scrubbing my HDD from all
my files relating to this project.
The irony of all of this is, the use I was planning for the microdesktop was
to cut my dependency on proprietary cloud services for email, file hosting
etc.
I will end with this: I was willing to provide an actual tangible
contribution to this project. I ask all of those who would lecture me: apart
from endless (and quite often fruitless) talk on this list, what are *you*
doing to help this project, exactly?
very good point. well, of the people who write regularly, they're
helping keep me sane and keeping me from making too many mistakes, if
nothing else. for that alone i have to be absolutely grateful.
l.
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Se
