Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] Eoma68 update
Joseph Lira
2017-07-23 17:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Hello

From your last update I havent seen an update as to how the os will be delivered/installed can you give an update? Will it be an SD card? Also when do you plan to start shipping boards the crowdfunding says nov of this year is that still correct? Im asking becuase i wanted to use the eoma68 to be a little low power stream box actually can this be done? Or i wanted to replace my original pi that runs pi-hole

I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send l
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-23 21:28:06 UTC
Permalink
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
Post by Joseph Lira
Hello
From your last update I havent seen an update as to how the os will be delivered/installed can you give an update? Will it be an SD card? Also when do you plan to start shipping boards the crowdfunding says nov of this year is that still correct? Im asking becuase i wanted to use the eoma68 to be a little low power stream box actually can this be done? Or i wanted to replace my original pi that runs pi-hole
hi eric these are answered by the last updates, the answers don't
change, they're not time-dependent, they're "goal" dependent, where
the goals are in turn dependent on *other people* completing certain
tasks.

so it's flat-out impossible to answer any question that starts with "when" :)

there's no NAND any more so micro-sd card it is. i asked for some
help from people about how and what to ship... no response. 2,500
people and nobody made any off-the-wall suggestions: i must have asked
in an unclear way. (p.s. thank you to the person who suggested places
to look for low-cost micro-sd cards).

i've been in 3D design head-space for almost a month, it's... "deep
rabbit-hole" territory.... driving me nuts but finally the last batch
of critical parts are arriving tomorrow, i'll be able to start
assembly of the experimental 3D printer.

near-100%-focus on that is why i've not been talking much.

http://forum.openscad.org/ANN-pyopenscad-spline-surface-generator-td21838.html

i reaally meant "deep down the rabbit hole" stuff... :) some
fantastic shapes just completed tonight, a very exotic fan duct which
takes twin 25mm fans from the *top* of the carriage holder, goes
through twin ducts made from spiined "legs" that morph from squares to
crescent moon shapes, which are joined back-to-back to create the
outer and inner circle surrounding the extruder hot-end. a hollow
arc-sphere duct is dropped on top of that and vanes added to create
vortices but also act as duct support.

if you've seen the mendel90 fan duct the effeect is a bit like that
but without the "support" problems (due to the vanes). i wanted the
air to come out evenly all the way round the extruder but i also want
to try it as a vortex ("tornado").

overall it's a fascinating and beautiful shape, in a startling and exotic way.
Post by Joseph Lira
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
thanks eric, really appreciated.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-n
Christopher Havel
2017-07-23 21:39:38 UTC
Permalink
I can offer one very emphatic suggestion regarding the MicroSD cards -- NOT
EBAY.

I've not been bit personally, but I've heard the stories. Flash media of
any meaningful capacity is usually worth about half the capacity
advertised, with dodgy firmware to compensate.

I always buy from Newegg[dot]com but they don't really do volume pricing
and they're not a wholesaler which is what you really need. Maybe one of
your factory contacts over there has a pal at eg SanDisk? or maybe it might
be worth a trip (back?) to Akihabara Market? (Didn't you go there at some
point? I can't remember.)
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phco
c***@sasktel.net
2017-07-24 01:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
~~~
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
there's no NAND any more so micro-sd card it is. i asked for some
help from people about how and what to ship... no response. 2,500
people and nobody made any off-the-wall suggestions: i must have asked
in an unclear way. (p.s. thank you to the person who suggested places
to look for low-cost micro-sd cards).
(for reference, I noticed that this topic was discussed somewhat with the
subject-line "[Arm-netbook] Arm Netbook, Saw the update,", until 2017.6.26.)

here is a quote from
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/274-eoma68-a20-cards-arrived

QUOTE
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
1,000 microSD cards would need to be bought, prepared and tested. Some of the OS
images are too large to fit onto a 4 GB Card: that means 8 or 16 GB is needed. 8
GB and 16 GB microSD cards are actually quite expensive, ~.
Any estimate of how much cost it'd add, per unit, to buy big-enough
microSD-cards for the bigger distributions pledged for, and prepare and test the
cards? Personally, I'm definitely fine with paying more for this.
How about total cost for that? Depending on the amount, one or more persons
might wish to make a donation to cover, or help cover, this cost for everyone.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
So I am considering instead to simply provide download scripts for people,
Upon me receiving an "EOMA68-A20" (yeah, yeah, i still need to decide which
colour or such of the "Libre-Tea" card to order), it might be the only "Linux-GNU"
system I have at the time. (Migrating from "Windows" is taking time, sadly.) As
far as I understand, if I just get download-scripts with it, then I'd need to
either (1) "install" a "Linux-GNU"-distribution onto a computer OTHER than the
EOMA-68 lap-top, or (2) use a "live" version of some "Linux-GNU"-distribution, just
so that I could (3) download the OS for the "EOMA68-A20"-card. And my current
lap-top, seems to not like the libre distributions which I have tried on it (at
least, endless "sleep" with "Trisquel"). Maybe other backers or persons planning
to back this, are likely to have the same problem if merely given download-scripts?
I guess that a different way to put this problem, is-
how "important" is it at this stage of EOMA68, to "include" persons who are not
already running Linux-GNU? (Maybe this question is going to only be true for the
"A20"-cards, because maybe others like "RK3388" shall not have this problem. And
the "A20"-cards might not see many production-runs. But I still plan to back at
least one "A20"-card.)
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
and/or to offer much smaller 128 MB or 256 MB microSD cards which have an
absolute bare minimum OS on them, with scripts that will download an OS onto
I have tried hard to practice safe "Internet"-use with the systems which I have
and previously had (yes, moving from "Microsoft" to a libre "OS", should be a
quantum leap on that "issue").
How secure would this "bare minimum OS" be, for both down-loading AND
installing onto a microSD-card (supplied by me)?
Ideally, I hope that (1) it does not permit any connections other than
downloading one of several particular "OS"-images, via "URLs" which are
white-listed as part of the "bare minimum OS", and (2) it afterwards checks the
image to see whether the crypto-graphic hash (better than MD5) matches the hash
which the "bare minimum OS" says is valid for that image.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
their own (self-supplied) 4 GB, 8 GB or 16 GB or other sized microSD card. ~
because the unanticipated iterations have eaten into the available budget. ~
~ this is something that needs to be discussed, how people would feel about the
need to save on cost of production vs convenience and expectations. Some people,
for example, may not have a reliable Internet connection or may not be expecting
to connect their EOMA68-A20 Card to the Internet at all,
for my case, I'd plan to (1) configure the "OS" to my satisfaction, and next
(2) download a satisfactory browser and configure that, and ONLY LATER (3) use
"Internet" otherwise.
but like Luke wrote, some persons might plan to not connect at all.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
or for whatever reason
may not actually have the means to download a 1.7 GB file off the Internet.
QUOTE'S end

(I manually added the > and the breaks. Hmm, is that going to work?)

is it feasible to offer several options to backers, like-

(1) scripts to download an offered distribution onto backer's self-supplied
microSD-card (for persons willing and able to do the rest themselves).
(2) low-capacity microSD-card with mini-OS and the same scripts as option #1
(for persons comfortable and willing and able to supply their own
several-GB-microSD-card and at a command-line type "download" and "install").
(3) 4GB-card with one of the smaller distribution(s) which were offered.
(4) 8GB-card with one of the bigger distributions, perhaps for an additional fee.
(5) 16GB-card with one of the bigger distributions, perhaps for an additional fee.

if enough persons choose cheaper options, then that may "subsidize" the cases
of some backers choosing costlier options.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-24 05:38:40 UTC
Permalink
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
Post by c***@sasktel.net
Any estimate of how much cost it'd add, per unit, to buy big-enough
microSD-cards for the bigger distributions pledged for, and prepare and test
the cards?
i'd need to do it. times a thousand. which is why i'm not hugely
keen on the idea.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
Personally, I'm definitely fine with paying more for this.
How about total cost for that? Depending on the amount, one or more
persons might wish to make a donation to cover, or help cover, this cost for
everyone.
that would be great
Post by c***@sasktel.net
computer OTHER than the EOMA-68 lap-top, or (2) use a "live" version of some
"Linux-GNU"-distribution, just so that I could (3) download the OS for the
"EOMA68-A20"-card.
one option is to get a very small card (512mb, 1gb) and put a
"loader" OS on that. if they're $0.25 or $0.50 in qty 1000 then
that's worth considering. instead of $4 for an 8GB card. say.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
And my current lap-top, seems to not like the libre
distributions which I have tried on it (at least, endless "sleep" with
"Trisquel"). Maybe other backers or persons planning to back this, are
likely to have the same problem if merely given download-scripts?
exactly.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
I guess that a different way to put this problem, is-
how "important" is it at this stage of EOMA68, to "include" persons who
are not already running Linux-GNU?
honestly as this is early-phase anyone should expect to have things
that they'll need to deal with... *but* for those people not able to
cope i expect *you guys* (those with technical knowledge) to help them
out.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
(Maybe this question is going to only be
true for the "A20"-cards, because maybe others like "RK3388" shall not have
this problem. And the "A20"-cards might not see many production-runs. But
I still plan to back at least one "A20"-card.)
yay. thank you.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
and/or to offer much smaller 128 MB or 256 MB microSD cards which have an
absolute bare minimum OS on them, with scripts that will download an OS onto
I have tried hard to practice safe "Internet"-use with the systems which
I have and previously had (yes, moving from "Microsoft" to a libre "OS",
should be a quantum leap on that "issue").
:)
Post by c***@sasktel.net
How secure would this "bare minimum OS" be, for both down-loading AND
installing onto a microSD-card (supplied by me)?
if it's designed properly, none.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
Ideally, I hope that (1) it does not permit any connections other than
downloading one of several particular "OS"-images, via "URLs" which are
white-listed as part of the "bare minimum OS",
not whitelisted: hard-coded.
Post by c***@sasktel.net
and (2) it afterwards checks
the image to see whether the crypto-graphic hash (better than MD5) matches
the hash which the "bare minimum OS" says is valid for that image.
bittorrent would automatically do that. command-line version is
btdownloadheadless.

very tired. stopping here. sorry. please do carry on the
conversation. i'll pick it up later.

l
.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
c***@sasktel.net
2017-08-12 04:43:44 UTC
Permalink
On 17.7.23 23:38, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
~~~
~~~
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by c***@sasktel.net
"EOMA68-A20"-card.
one option is to get a very small card (512mb, 1gb) and put a
"loader" OS on that. if they're $0.25 or $0.50 in qty 1000 then
that's worth considering. instead of $4 for an 8GB card. say.
~~~
(Quoting Luke)
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by c***@sasktel.net
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
and/or to offer much smaller 128 MB or 256 MB microSD cards which have an
absolute bare minimum OS on them, with scripts that will download an OS
~~~
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by c***@sasktel.net
How secure would this "bare minimum OS" be, for both down-loading AND
installing onto a microSD-card (supplied by me)?
if it's designed properly, none.
I do not understand this response. I understand being tired.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by c***@sasktel.net
Ideally, I hope that (1) it does not permit any connections other than
downloading one of several particular "OS"-images, via "URLs" which are
white-listed as part of the "bare minimum OS",
not whitelisted: hard-coded.
that is good too.
But, if not significantly more work, then I hope that the mini-"OS" can be
modified by A TECHNICALLY-MINDED user, to download and "install" a different one of
the particular "OSs/images" offered. Something like a "config"-file whose content
is like this:

BEGIN FILE
0
# lines like this, are comments
# to download and install a different OS (to the microSD-card which you supply),
change the number on the first line, as follows:
#
# 0 for Parabola 4.3 (3.9 GB) (comes with the RYF Libre Tea card)
# 1 for Devuan 3.2 (4.1 GB)
# 2 for Debian 2.1 custom without systemd (4.2 GB)
# 3 for Fedora 1.0 (3.8 GB)
#
# but make sure that the microSD-card which you supply, is big enough!
END FILE

(Of course, the sizes and version-numbers for the sample above, are largely
just place-holders, not things which I checked for realisticness.)

This way, a user can try or use several different "OSs". It might even make it
easier for Luke preparing the "microSD-cards" with the loader-"OS", because the
difference between preparing a card for someone who backed a "Parabola"-card, is
only one byte (one key-press) different from preparing a card for someone who
backed a different card.

Furthermore, if one or more backers end up unhappy with what they receive for
the "OS" which they backed, then this method probably makes it FAR easier to help
those backers try a different "OS".

As long as the change requires manually editing a configuration-file, it should
be an adequately-technical task to satisfy the "RYF"-criterion of not offering
non-libre "software" to average users.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by c***@sasktel.net
and (2) it afterwards checks
the image to see whether the crypto-graphic hash (better than MD5) matches
the hash which the "bare minimum OS" says is valid for that image.
bittorrent would automatically do that. command-line version is
btdownloadheadless.
sounds good. I imagine that any necessary further details on using this, can
come later.
but I hope that "headless" does not mean that we do not even get a statement
of progress with numbers, something like
Downloading. done 1% ...
or
Downloading. amount left to download is 10 mb ...
or
Downloaded 3990 mb of 4000 mb ...

and I hope that we get something similar for "installing". Some such
estimate of progress, is valuable (1) for trouble-shooting if necessary, and (2)
for backers to judge when they should next come back to check whether it is done,
like 5 minutes later or 1 day later.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
very tired. stopping here. sorry. please do carry on the
conversation. i'll pick it up later.
l
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.c

zap
2017-07-24 15:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Joseph Lira
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
thanks eric, really appreciated.
___
I may wait to see what people say about your laptop once they have it,
before buying, I hope you understand, I still want to support your
cause, I just want to know the difficulty of putting the pieces together
and also, the stability/sturdiness.

I will in 2018. I wish you the best Luke. May you be blessed for your
ethics.

:)



_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-25 09:17:35 UTC
Permalink
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
Post by zap
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Joseph Lira
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
thanks eric, really appreciated.
___
I may wait to see what people say about your laptop once they have it,
before buying, I hope you understand, I still want to support your
cause, I just want to know the difficulty of putting the pieces together
and also, the stability/sturdiness.
i'll be using the first 10 to create videos and documentation. the
prototype i have here is pretty sturdy, not least because it's very
light (1.1kg), but also because i went to a lot of trouble to design
shapes with internal structural support. one piece 160mm long, it
actually got to be dangerous to try to bend / snap it, i was applying
so much force i was concerned that shards might fly off. applying a
*lot* of pressure - enough to make marks on my fingers - only bent it
about 2-3mm out of shape.
Post by zap
I will in 2018. I wish you the best Luke. May you be blessed for your
ethics.
thx zap :)

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcom
Vincent Legoll
2017-07-25 11:12:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
it actually got to be dangerous to try to bend / snap it, i was applying
so much force i was concerned that shards might fly off. applying a
*lot* of pressure - enough to make marks on my fingers - only bent it
about 2-3mm out of shape.
Did you also try some fall tests, because that's more likely to happen
in real life. Especially as the case design is not monilithic (if I remember
correctly), the shock forces will get applied to the weakest parts.

Hey, it's OK if you actually didn't ;-)

You could test with pieces that had 3d printing problems, so as not to
destroy any good ones.

And then label the project as being Eco-consciously tested !
--
Vincent Legoll

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@file
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-25 12:29:34 UTC
Permalink
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Vincent Legoll
Post by Vincent Legoll
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
it actually got to be dangerous to try to bend / snap it, i was applying
so much force i was concerned that shards might fly off. applying a
*lot* of pressure - enough to make marks on my fingers - only bent it
about 2-3mm out of shape.
Did you also try some fall tests, because that's more likely to happen
in real life.
on the one prototype being used for the crowd-funding?? naah!
Post by Vincent Legoll
Especially as the case design is not monilithic (if I remember
correctly), the shock forces will get applied to the weakest parts.
Hey, it's OK if you actually didn't ;-)
well... honestly... if people do drop it, they're on their own, and
get to keep all the pieces. buuuut... that's no different from any
mass-volume product... the difference being: you get to be able to
3D-print your *own* replacement parts, and repair it yourself.

as opposed to "throw the whole thing out"
Post by Vincent Legoll
You could test with pieces that had 3d printing problems, so as not to
destroy any good ones.
And then label the project as being Eco-consciously tested !
mmm... yyeahh not today :)

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netbook@
Loading...