[Arm-netbook] TODO list EOMA68 campaign

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

hiya folks ok much as a reminder to myself but also to let people know:

* looks like i'm going to hope2016 (http://hope.net) in new york
if anyone's in the area and is thinking of attending.

* i'm currently building mainline u-boot (working) and mainline
sunxi-next to see if it will work. i have a modified dtb
from the cubieboard2 which worked previously when i
tried a 3.15 nand rc5 fork by bbrezillon, it.. .ah... ended up
with corrupted nand at the time (from u-boot. oops).

* still TODO is a slashdot article, last one some people didn't
like (editors?) and dropped it into binspam....

* the comparisons laptop update i added both sets of suggested
mods (thanks to you both for the prompting).

we do have one more consideration here, someone has pointed
out that they're really not happy at the potential "personal criticism"
of the vera apparatus arm64 team... there isn't any (there's not
a single personal pronoun in the entire section). the update is
there to show the effectiveness of the ethics, approach and implied
(or explicitly-stated) committment to "open-ness"... and their
wiki is shut off, there's no mailing list... i don't know what to do
here because if i can't reach the team i can't offer them an
opportunity to say something... suggestions welcome.

* i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign,
approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected
it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into
a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone,
USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated
on that one.

ok enough, feedback appreciated.

l.

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

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[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
* i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign,
approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected
it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into
a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone,
USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated
on that one.

Go for it !

I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the
campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do
it, don't doubt.

I think SOCs are too difficult to choose. All of them have one problem
or other. You can't immediately have a dozen CPU cards with different
SOCs to pick for. But if you can have a CPU card without CPU, then
you dodge the problem nicely.

SOCs have boot problems, power problems, performance problems, legal
problems in their SDKs, support problems, PR problems, conflict
mineral problems, labour rights problems... You can't pick the good
one, just one that is the least bad to you. But a supporter may give
slightly different weights to the problems and reach a completely
different conclusion. Yet the EOMA68 concept is attactive. Forcing
backers to either buy useless peripherals or buy a SOC they have
already decided against is holding back supporters.

If a backer can buy a pass through card so that meanwhile they can use
their existing mobile phones or tablets or Pyras or SBCs or whatever
(an SBC in a box is sometimes not so big to carry compared to a 15"
laptop, and a 15" lightweight laptop should be much more comfortable
to work on than a phone or tablet) and they can wait for their
prefered SOC to get into a future CPU card, they'll have an easier
time backing you. If cables are long enough with the laptop and
passthrough card, they can use their desktop PC from the sofa or bed,
etc.

At the same time, having the computer attached by a couple of cables
to the laptop is still uncomfortable enough to justify buying a real
CPU card. So the pass through card does not lead to less CPU cards
sold. It justs justifies buying more laptops.

I think it would be better if the laptop or better, the "pass through"
card would have a wireless bridge of some kind but that's too
difficult or unfeasible for the benefit... possibly easier to use
two CPU cards with wifi dongles.

But then I'm bad at marketing, so I might be wrong...

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
If a backer can buy a pass through card so that meanwhile they can use
their existing mobile phones or tablets or Pyras or SBCs or whatever
(an SBC in a box is sometimes not so big to carry compared to a 15"
laptop, and a 15" lightweight laptop should be much more comfortable
to work on than a phone or tablet) and they can wait for their
prefered SOC to get into a future CPU card, they'll have an easier
time backing you.

that's what i figured... yeah. more tomorrow, really late here

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I think it would be better if the laptop or better, the "pass through"
card would have a wireless bridge of some kind but that's too
difficult or unfeasible for the benefit... possibly easier to use
two CPU cards with wifi dongles.

ooo really good idea... complex, would need a hell of a lot of
bandwidth and/or processing power...

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
* i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign,
approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected
it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into
a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone,
USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated
on that one.

Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the
campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do
it, don't doubt.

it's been planned for a long time, i can estimate the BOM (not a lot
- about $6 of components) it's the PCB manufacturing that will be a
bit more than usual if the quantities are small, even if it's a
single-sided 2-layer PCB

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I think SOCs are too difficult to choose. All of them have one problem
or other. You can't immediately have a dozen CPU cards with different
SOCs to pick for. But if you can have a CPU card without CPU, then
you dodge the problem nicely.

exactly, and it's kinda cool.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
At the same time, having the computer attached by a couple of cables
to the laptop is still uncomfortable enough to justify buying a real
CPU card. So the pass through card does not lead to less CPU cards
sold. It justs justifies buying more laptops.

exactly.

then again you've probably seen the USB-HDMI dongle PC connected to
motorola atrix lapdock "version 1" instructables.... you can't use the
version 2 as they DRM-locked it.

l.

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[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
* i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign,
approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected
it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into
a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone,
USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated
on that one.

Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the
campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do
it, don't doubt.

it's been planned for a long time, i can estimate the BOM (not a lot
- about $6 of components) it's the PCB manufacturing that will be a
bit more than usual if the quantities are small, even if it's a
single-sided 2-layer PCB

No idea about those calculations. You said around $40 for the backer
to get one, that sounds about right. Psicologically it's still more
than half the price of a CPU card, and it doesn't carry SOC, RAM or
storage. That may be countered with just publishing the BOMs of both
the passthrough card and CPU card (if they aren't already). But even
without that, $40 it's not so off the mark.

If it can be 30$ or 32$ you may sell more. If it comes to $50 it
starts to look too close to $65 (CPU card) or to $55 (desktop, but I'm
not sure this is a valid comparison) and people might think twice. I
can't calculate the point where the sales volume outweights the lower
profit per unit. No idea.

I'd even say ask for more PCBs than pledges to anticipate future sells,
but it's not my own money I'm playing with so I'll refrain. I'm sligthly
surprised by the small amount of laptop orders so far, and I haven't thought
much, but I don't see the passthrough card+ desktop as even remotely as
interesting as pasthrough card + laptop.

Other components are unique (like female connectors instead of male or
something) or can they be grouped with components for other rewards
and so enjoy the price of larger orders ? I don't have an idea of
MOQs, price/quantity intervals or anything.

Another factor is time. If it is ready to offer before the deadline it
makes sense. If prototypes, testing and so on takes longer, then
maybe it'll have to wait to future campaigns...

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
then again you've probably seen the USB-HDMI dongle PC connected to
motorola atrix lapdock "version 1" instructables.... you can't use the
version 2 as they DRM-locked it.

I haven't seen that. I don't really imagine what it is right now. Worth
looking it up ? I lose interest when reading DRM...

Whatever it is it can't possibly hold the promise to host a EOMA68 cpu
card with someone's favorite SOC in the future, can it?

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
* i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign,
approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected
it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into
a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone,
USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated
on that one.

Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the
campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do
it, don't doubt.

it's been planned for a long time, i can estimate the BOM (not a lot
- about $6 of components) it's the PCB manufacturing that will be a
bit more than usual if the quantities are small, even if it's a
single-sided 2-layer PCB

No idea about those calculations. You said around $40 for the backer
to get one, that sounds about right. Psicologically it's still more
than half the price of a CPU card, and it doesn't carry SOC, RAM or
storage. That may be countered with just publishing the BOMs of both
the passthrough card and CPU card (if they aren't already). But even
without that, $40 it's not so off the mark.
If it can be 30$ or 32$ you may sell more.

... yeahhh will think about it.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
If it comes to $50 it
starts to look too close to $65 (CPU card) or to $55 (desktop, but I'm
not sure this is a valid comparison) and people might think twice. I
can't calculate the point where the sales volume outweights the lower
profit per unit. No idea.

you could put the pass-through card into the micro-desktop as well,
that's the hilarious bit.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I'd even say ask for more PCBs than pledges to anticipate future sells,
but it's not my own money I'm playing with so I'll refrain. I'm sligthly
surprised by the small amount of laptop orders so far, and I haven't thought
much, but I don't see the passthrough card+ desktop as even remotely as
interesting as pasthrough card + laptop.

yeah exactly - look at the http://nexdock.com/cool-uses/ it becomes
clear, oh, also, it looks like someone there found a WIFI HDMI adapter
of some kind :)

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Other components are unique (like female connectors instead of male or
something) or can they be grouped with components for other rewards
and so enjoy the price of larger orders ? I don't have an idea of
MOQs, price/quantity intervals or anything.

nono, i can use the same micro-hdmi and micro-usb-otg as on the
EOMA68-A20. getting hold of the cables for tablets and smartphones,
have to look those up, can do it in another update, you need a
micro-hdmi-to-micro-hdmi and micro-otg-to-micro-otg which i've never
heard of so might have to be done as a multi-set of converters... ehh
will work it out

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Another factor is time. If it is ready to offer before the deadline it
makes sense. If prototypes, testing and so on takes longer, then
maybe it'll have to wait to future campaigns...

it's simple enough to do (about 20 components) but i feel comfortable
explaining to people what's going on.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
then again you've probably seen the USB-HDMI dongle PC connected to
motorola atrix lapdock "version 1" instructables.... you can't use the
version 2 as they DRM-locked it.

I haven't seen that. I don't really imagine what it is right now. Worth
looking it up ? I lose interest when reading DRM...

the nexdock is more interesting

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Whatever it is it can't possibly hold the promise to host a EOMA68 cpu
card with someone's favorite SOC in the future, can it?

:)

placeholder page here
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/passthrough_card/


chris (havel) would you like to have a go at making something using
that program you use? let's put it on the community_ideas page

l.

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[Christopher Havel]

I have no idea what you want me to make -_-

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
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On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Christopher Havel

Post by Christopher Havel
I have no idea what you want me to make -_-

:)

a better version of this:
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/passthrough_card/

which explains exactly the same uses as this:
http://nexdock.com/cool-uses/

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:39 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Christopher Havel

Post by Christopher Havel
I have no idea what you want me to make -_-

:)
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/passthrough_card/

.. just mayybeeee without the words "taking over the world, one
standard at a time".... :)

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[Christopher Havel]

Simple enough. I'm kind of in the middle of something, though... can I
schedule you for say tomorrow, late morning or so...?

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Havel

Post by Christopher Havel
Simple enough. I'm kind of in the middle of something, though... can I
schedule you for say tomorrow, late morning or so...?

sure

Post by Christopher Havel
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