[Arm-netbook] EOMA68 In A Intel Card World?

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Alexander Ross

How to market eoma68 vs intel card in a positive way?
Heres a go, please edit,suggest as you feel. hmm sounds like a wiki page
*Grass roots developed - made by someone who cares
*Any processor make
*Made with free software and its developers in mind. to help advance and
fund free software.
*Hardware that just works for free software and there for any software
*Makes it easier for the creation and maintenance of many, yet to be
thought of, new devices.
*Higher Spec additional standard EOMA200 in the works after current ones
products are in the market.

also (thanks to recent discussions) backwards-compatible upgrade
options to higher power (up to 10W) and higher resolution(s).
1920x1080 planned for first revision, other speeds potentially later
*if* they can be kept within EMI limits.

l.

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[Parobalth]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Alexander Ross

How to market eoma68 vs intel card in a positive way?
Heres a go, please edit,suggest as you feel. hmm sounds like a wiki page
*Grass roots developed - made by someone who cares
*Any processor make
*Made with free software and its developers in mind. to help advance and
fund free software.
*Hardware that just works for free software and there for any software
*Makes it easier for the creation and maintenance of many, yet to be
thought of, new devices.
*Higher Spec additional standard EOMA200 in the works after current ones
products are in the market.

also (thanks to recent discussions) backwards-compatible upgrade
options to higher power (up to 10W) and higher resolution(s).
1920x1080 planned for first revision, other speeds potentially later
*if* they can be kept within EMI limits.
l.

Weeks ago I began to wonder what the best way to promote EOMA68-A20
would be once it becomes a reality in spring. I think the crowdsupply
campaign and the promotion video were very well executed.
Are there any plans for another video -- maybe part of a promotion
campaign starting in spring 2017?
To clarify: I am thinking more of a "guerilla", decentral community
driven campaign and not something involving a slick marketing company.
As a consequence of the recent "intel computer-card" news I feel even
more urgency to create some buzz for EOMA68-A20 and I believe that it is
by far the better product compared to the quite vague Intel announcement.
I can write down some of my ideas which currently live relatively
unstructured in my head if it is seen as a good idea by Luke and the
community. On the other hand if there are already plans how to promote
EOMA68 in the next year I can save myself the time and work on other
projects.

Parobalth

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Parobalth
I can write down some of my ideas which currently live relatively
unstructured in my head if it is seen as a good idea by Luke and the
community.

go for it, it's always helpful.

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[Parobalth]

Post by Parobalth
I can write down some of my ideas which currently live relatively
unstructured in my head if it is seen as a good idea by Luke and the
community.

On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 12:36:14PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
go for it, it's always helpful.

To promote EOMA68-A20 and the housings I think we need shiny Images,
Graphics, Comics, Videos to get the message across. I try to focus on
the soon available products. I agree with Allan and Alain that a logo is
needed. For the .gif under A) I created a placeholder logo that you can
view here: Loading Image... Maybe we can build on
the idea of the green circuit board (earth) and the blue circle (ocean)
which symbolize our planet.

A) Explain the concept:
Have a look at this small .gif
(Loading Image...) where I used images from the
crowd supply campaign to illustrate the idea. Be warned that I just
quickly hacked it together.
I propose to refine the message (better content and flawless execution)
and to do similar ones for upgrades, use cases...

B) Problem and Lukes Story:
Status Quo: In the digital age we are used to throw away computers
because of multiple reasons: forced-upgrades, upgrades, unrepairable
(costs / no spareparts), shiny-new-syndrom.
Solution: One man had the vision to create eco-conscious,
freedom-respecting, money-saving, modular hardware. Luke Kenneth Casson
Leighton the developer and guardian of the EOMA68 standard has been
working fiercly for the past years to make his vision come true.
Currently he is on site in China and Taiwang to fulfill the successful
crowdfunding campaign. EOMA68 becomes a reality in Spring 2017 with the
EOMA68-A20 computer card, the micro desktop and a 15" Laptop Housing.
Preorder now!

C) Examples of User Groups:
I separated 4 main user groups to emphasize the message. They certainly
don't exist as separate entities in reality. In reality there are
multiple overlapping reasons for EOMA68. For example concerning myself
1. and 3. are the main reasons I backed the project. Someone only
looking for good enough computing with a low environmental footprint
doesn't have to be "welcomed" and scared away by datasheets and
technical mumbo jumbo.

Every group has a "catchy" motto in parenthesis:

1. FLOSS/Libre/Security/Privacy (Compute like no one is watching):
* RYF certification
* Libre
* lowest common denominator
* truly libre strategy
* Right to freedom of opinion and expression; access to the
* Internet is a basic human right: "the same rights people have
* offline must also be protected online."
* mass surveillance, NSA
* no backdoors
* secure
* made by someone who cares
* mainline support
* non modifiable readable BootROM
* no NDAs
* firmware and kernel sources GPL

2. Non-Technical (Solutions not problems):
* Pop it in it will work
* share housings/cards with family members
* money-saving
* pre-installed OS
* works out of the box

3. Eco-Conscious (reduce, reuse, recycle):
* low power consumption
* off grid computing solution
* modular
* 3D-Print replacement parts
* print locally (reduces shipping and saves
* shipping costs for tiny plastic parts)
* repairable
* Factory conditions and production (@Luke can
you add some information)
* good enough computing
* minimalistc, reduce stuff, travel light ->
* go for just a bare computer card
* reduce, reuse, recycle
* stop forced upgrades which force you to
* throw away a working computer

4. Developer/Maker (Show me everything):
* CAD-Files available
* schematics
* datasheets
* no NDAs
* firmware and kernel sources GPL
* print your own parts
* build your custom solution

D) Personal Stories:
It may be a good idea to collect some personal stories.
For example I bought a Netbook 5 years ago and use it a lot. If I
would use a non-free OS the netbook would already be obsolete (forced
upgrade). Recently I noticed that I wish the netbook to be just a
netbook housing and that I just could upgrade the computer card and
double the RAM (the netbook only has 1GB).

E) Catchy slogans:
Be part of the revolution!
No more forced-upgrades!
Live the manufacturers nightmare!
Break the throw-away cycle - start the age of modular good-enough
computing!

If you have critique, questions, suggestions, thoughts and comments
please let me know. Collaboratin is very welcome.


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[Peter Carlson]

Great effort into putting this together.
I like the logo my only comment is that vertical reading really turns some
people off. Don't know what it would look like horizontal but worth a look,

Post by Parobalth

Post by Parobalth
I can write down some of my ideas which currently live relatively
unstructured in my head if it is seen as a good idea by Luke and the
community.

On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 12:36:14PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
go for it, it's always helpful.

To promote EOMA68-A20 and the housings I think we need shiny Images,
Graphics, Comics, Videos to get the message across. I try to focus on
the soon available products. I agree with Allan and Alain that a logo is
needed. For the .gif under A) I created a placeholder logo that you can
view here: https://www.parobalth.org/EOMA68.png Maybe we can build on
the idea of the green circuit board (earth) and the blue circle (ocean)
which symbolize our planet.
Have a look at this small .gif
(https://www.parobalth.org/EOMA68-A20.gif) where I used images from the
crowd supply campaign to illustrate the idea. Be warned that I just
quickly hacked it together.
I propose to refine the message (better content and flawless execution)
and to do similar ones for upgrades, use cases...
Status Quo: In the digital age we are used to throw away computers
because of multiple reasons: forced-upgrades, upgrades, unrepairable
(costs / no spareparts), shiny-new-syndrom.
Solution: One man had the vision to create eco-conscious,
freedom-respecting, money-saving, modular hardware. Luke Kenneth Casson
Leighton the developer and guardian of the EOMA68 standard has been
working fiercly for the past years to make his vision come true.
Currently he is on site in China and Taiwang to fulfill the successful
crowdfunding campaign. EOMA68 becomes a reality in Spring 2017 with the
EOMA68-A20 computer card, the micro desktop and a 15" Laptop Housing.
Preorder now!
I separated 4 main user groups to emphasize the message. They certainly
don't exist as separate entities in reality. In reality there are
multiple overlapping reasons for EOMA68. For example concerning myself
1. and 3. are the main reasons I backed the project. Someone only
looking for good enough computing with a low environmental footprint
doesn't have to be "welcomed" and scared away by datasheets and
technical mumbo jumbo.
* RYF certification
* Libre
* lowest common denominator
* truly libre strategy
* Right to freedom of opinion and expression; access to the
* Internet is a basic human right: "the same rights people have
* offline must also be protected online."
* mass surveillance, NSA
* no backdoors
* secure
* made by someone who cares
* mainline support
* non modifiable readable BootROM
* no NDAs
* firmware and kernel sources GPL
* Pop it in it will work
* share housings/cards with family members
* money-saving
* pre-installed OS
* works out of the box
* low power consumption
* off grid computing solution
* modular
* 3D-Print replacement parts
* print locally (reduces shipping and saves
* shipping costs for tiny plastic parts)
* repairable
you add some information)
* good enough computing
* minimalistc, reduce stuff, travel light ->
* go for just a bare computer card
* reduce, reuse, recycle
* stop forced upgrades which force you to
* throw away a working computer
* CAD-Files available
* schematics
* datasheets
* no NDAs
* firmware and kernel sources GPL
* print your own parts
* build your custom solution
It may be a good idea to collect some personal stories.
For example I bought a Netbook 5 years ago and use it a lot. If I
would use a non-free OS the netbook would already be obsolete (forced
upgrade). Recently I noticed that I wish the netbook to be just a
netbook housing and that I just could upgrade the computer card and
double the RAM (the netbook only has 1GB).
Be part of the revolution!
No more forced-upgrades!
Live the manufacturers nightmare!
Break the throw-away cycle - start the age of modular good-enough
computing!
If you have critique, questions, suggestions, thoughts and comments
please let me know. Collaboratin is very welcome.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook

[Parobalth]

Post by Peter Carlson
Great effort into putting this together.
I like the logo my only comment is that vertical reading really turns some
people off. Don't know what it would look like horizontal but worth a look,

Yes, I agree with you. I have been making some drafts with horizontal
"EOMA68-text"
but not with the blue circle. I asked myself if horizontal text would be
better but then decided so send it as it is.
I am going to try out a horizontal version as soon as I have more
feedback.

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[Philip Hands]

Post by Parobalth

Post by Peter Carlson
Great effort into putting this together.
I like the logo my only comment is that vertical reading really turns some
people off. Don't know what it would look like horizontal but worth a look,

Yes, I agree with you. I have been making some drafts with horizontal
"EOMA68-text"
but not with the blue circle. I asked myself if horizontal text would be
better but then decided so send it as it is.
I am going to try out a horizontal version as soon as I have more
feedback.

Could one perhaps use the E as a representation for the socket. Perhaps
someone with graphical skills would like to take inspiration from:

*****
* O +----+
** M | 68 |
* A +----+
*****

Cheers, Phil.

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by Philip Hands
Could one perhaps use the E as a representation for the socket. Perhaps
*****
* O +----+
** M | 68 |
* A +----+
*****

funny.... i like that one despite not liking vertical layouts (as
peter said). i think it's because the EEEEEE encourages people to
pronounce it first, then three letters "OMA" are easier to get right.
the 68 in its own box emphasises the fact that there's other standards
planned....

yeah.

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[Tor, the Marqueteur]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Philip Hands
Could one perhaps use the E as a representation for the socket. Perhaps
*****
* O +----+
** M | 68 |
* A +----+
*****

funny.... i like that one despite not liking vertical layouts (as
peter said). i think it's because the EEEEEE encourages people to
pronounce it first, then three letters "OMA" are easier to get right.
the 68 in its own box emphasises the fact that there's other standards
planned....
yeah.

Looking at that, I just had another ascii version pop into my head:

************
************
** O M A (Fill this space with OMA)
**
****** ----
******| |
**---- 68 |
**---------|
************
************

Looking at the completed version, it may not render as well, and it
doesn't translate to an ascii logo as well if desired. It does return to
the horizontal layout, though.

Tor

[Julie Marchant]

Post by Tor, the Marqueteur
************
************
** O M A (Fill this space with OMA)
**
****** ----
******| |
**---- 68 |
**---------|
************
************
Looking at the completed version, it may not render as well, and it
doesn't translate to an ascii logo as well if desired. It does return to
the horizontal layout, though.

You know, that looks to me like it's showing two things being slotted
together, which is a good visual. But I kind of wonder, is giving such a
huge contrast to the E compared to the rest a good idea? I can imagine
people misinterpreting the E as just some sort of visual design and
starting to call them "OMA cards". You could just as easily have the "E"
in both places. Something more like this:

************
************
** E O M A |
**---- |
******|----|
******| |
**---- 68 |
**---------|
************
************

Here's another thought: you could forego the clear text entirely and
instead make it a sort of jigsaw puzzle made up of the letters "E", "O",
"M", and "A", with the clear text saying "EOMA68" displayed right next
to it.

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

nomnomnom....

********
**
****OMA 68
**
********

but bigger letters for O M A and 68, fitting inside the E.

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Tor, the Marqueteur

Post by Tor, the Marqueteur

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Philip Hands
Could one perhaps use the E as a representation for the socket. Perhaps
*****
* O +----+
** M | 68 |
* A +----+
*****

funny.... i like that one despite not liking vertical layouts (as
peter said). i think it's because the EEEEEE encourages people to
pronounce it first, then three letters "OMA" are easier to get right.
the 68 in its own box emphasises the fact that there's other standards
planned....
yeah.

************
************
** O M A (Fill this space with OMA)
**
****** ----
******| |
**---- 68 |
**---------|
************
************
Looking at the completed version, it may not render as well, and it
doesn't translate to an ascii logo as well if desired. It does return to
the horizontal layout, though.
Tor
--
Tor Chantara
http://www.fineartmarquetry.com/
GPG Key: 2BE1 426E 34EA D253 D583 9DE4 B866 0375 134B 48FB
*Be wary of unsigned emails*
Stop spying: http://www.resetthenet.org/
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[Lyberta]

If you're going to post sketches, please provide the source code
(preferably vector) and license of it.

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by Lyberta
If you're going to post sketches, please provide the source code
(preferably vector) and license of it.

good point, great reminder.

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[Parobalth]

I love the ASCII art replies. It is almost like we are in the same
room and can look at each others sketched ideas!
I initially had an idea where the capital E of EOMA is made of circuit
board elements with small black chips in the empty spaces of the E.
I am going to work on this idea and combinate it with the ASCII art ideas.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Lyberta
If you're going to post sketches, please provide the source code
(preferably vector) and license of it.

good point, great reminder.

I usually use some sort of "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike
License" for non code related work. For my examples I have used
Inkscape
and can provide the Inkscape files in vector format if needed.
As we discuss a logo for a global project I don't know which is the
best suited license. For example Debian uses a dual licensed logo with
an "open use logo" and a restricted-use logo for use by the Debian
Project and its members only.

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Parobalth
I love the ASCII art replies. It is almost like we are in the same
room and can look at each others sketched ideas!
I initially had an idea where the capital E of EOMA is made of circuit
board elements with small black chips in the empty spaces of the E.
I am going to work on this idea and combinate it with the ASCII art ideas.

coolman.

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[Philip Hands]

Parobalth <***@gmail.com> writes:
...

Post by Parobalth
For example Debian uses a dual licensed logo with
an "open use logo" and a restricted-use logo for use by the Debian
Project and its members only.

... and I'd strongly recommend against doing the same.

The way that came about was that the original vote had the logos the
other way around, and quite a lot of people thought they were voting for
the paint-brush swirl as the one that would be easy to use.

Immediately after the vote it became clear to them that the smooth-swirl
+ bottle was the one that was the more liberal use license, and there
was much gnashing of teeth, so we then had another vote to swap them.

So now most people are completely unaware of the restricted use logo:

https://www.debian.org/logos/#restricted-use

It's a mess, but either were better than Captain Blue-Eye (a.k.a the
deranged chicken), and also much better than the alternatives IMO.

While we're on the subject though, one reason it was such a mess was
that people failed to understand what a logo was, and insisted on
including text in the logo ... which I just did too ... Oops!

There are very few logos that include text and are also widely
recognised. There's Coke's (with it's Spencerian script), there's IBM,
with the stripy font) and that's about it.

The Debian competition can be seen here -- the rules were pretty sane:

https://www.debian.org/News/1999/19990204.en.html

even if many of the submissions ignored them completely, and the ensuing
argument was pretty unedifying -- as was often our way back then :-/

Cheers, Phil.

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by Parobalth

Post by Parobalth
I can write down some of my ideas which currently live relatively
unstructured in my head if it is seen as a good idea by Luke and the
community.

On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 12:36:14PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
go for it, it's always helpful.

To promote EOMA68-A20 and the housings I think we need shiny Images,
Graphics, Comics, Videos to get the message across. I try to focus on
the soon available products. I agree with Allan and Alain that a logo is
needed. For the .gif under A) I created a placeholder logo that you can
view here: https://www.parobalth.org/EOMA68.png Maybe we can build on
the idea of the green circuit board (earth) and the blue circle (ocean)
which symbolize our planet.

i like it - the blue and the green. there does need to be variants,
one with "libre hardware" and one without. words "EOMA" need to be on
the same line though (68 underneath) as you would not believe how many
people get the order of the letters wrong, and if you look up the
letters "E", "O", "M" and "A" in the trademark database they're pretty
much *all* taken with the exception of EOMA.

Post by Parobalth
Have a look at this small .gif
(https://www.parobalth.org/EOMA68-A20.gif) where I used images from the
crowd supply campaign to illustrate the idea. Be warned that I just
quickly hacked it together.
I propose to refine the message (better content and flawless execution)
and to do similar ones for upgrades, use cases...
Status Quo: In the digital age we are used to throw away computers
because of multiple reasons: forced-upgrades, upgrades, unrepairable
(costs / no spareparts), shiny-new-syndrom.
Solution: One man had the vision to create eco-conscious,
freedom-respecting, money-saving, modular hardware. Luke Kenneth Casson
Leighton the developer and guardian of the EOMA68 standard has been
working fiercly for the past years to make his vision come true.
Currently he is on site in China and Taiwang to fulfill the successful
crowdfunding campaign. EOMA68 becomes a reality in Spring 2017 with the
EOMA68-A20 computer card, the micro desktop and a 15" Laptop Housing.
Preorder now!

all very dramatic :)

Post by Parobalth
I separated 4 main user groups to emphasize the message. They certainly
don't exist as separate entities in reality. In reality there are
multiple overlapping reasons for EOMA68. For example concerning myself
1. and 3. are the main reasons I backed the project. Someone only
looking for good enough computing with a low environmental footprint
doesn't have to be "welcomed" and scared away by datasheets and
technical mumbo jumbo.

glad to see that you understand this so clearly.
... and it's definitely divided into groups. i started putting these
into "roles" on the elinux.org spec... turns out to be a massive
task...

Post by Parobalth
If you have critique, questions, suggestions, thoughts and comments
please let me know. Collaboratin is very welcome.

yes please.

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[Allan Mwenda]

I like the logo. Here's my input

Definitely write EOMA in one line, perhaps write certified going down and eoma going horizontally then the number below that, so its kinda rectangular
I do think a textless logo is important, kinda like USBs SS Trident. You know, something to go next to a certified slot :)

Post by Parobalth

Post by Parobalth
I can write down some of my ideas which currently live relatively
unstructured in my head if it is seen as a good idea by Luke and

the

Post by Parobalth
community.

On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 12:36:14PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
go for it, it's always helpful.

To promote EOMA68-A20 and the housings I think we need shiny Images,
Graphics, Comics, Videos to get the message across. I try to focus on
the soon available products. I agree with Allan and Alain that a logo is
needed. For the .gif under A) I created a placeholder logo that you can
view here: https://www.parobalth.org/EOMA68.png Maybe we can build on
the idea of the green circuit board (earth) and the blue circle (ocean)
which symbolize our planet.
Have a look at this small .gif
(https://www.parobalth.org/EOMA68-A20.gif) where I used images from the
crowd supply campaign to illustrate the idea. Be warned that I just
quickly hacked it together.
I propose to refine the message (better content and flawless execution)
and to do similar ones for upgrades, use cases...
Status Quo: In the digital age we are used to throw away computers
because of multiple reasons: forced-upgrades, upgrades, unrepairable
(costs / no spareparts), shiny-new-syndrom.
Solution: One man had the vision to create eco-conscious,
freedom-respecting, money-saving, modular hardware. Luke Kenneth Casson
Leighton the developer and guardian of the EOMA68 standard has been
working fiercly for the past years to make his vision come true.
Currently he is on site in China and Taiwang to fulfill the successful
crowdfunding campaign. EOMA68 becomes a reality in Spring 2017 with the
EOMA68-A20 computer card, the micro desktop and a 15" Laptop Housing.
Preorder now!
I separated 4 main user groups to emphasize the message. They certainly
don't exist as separate entities in reality. In reality there are
multiple overlapping reasons for EOMA68. For example concerning myself
1. and 3. are the main reasons I backed the project. Someone only
looking for good enough computing with a low environmental footprint
doesn't have to be "welcomed" and scared away by datasheets and
technical mumbo jumbo.
* RYF certification
* Libre
* lowest common denominator
* truly libre strategy
* Right to freedom of opinion and expression; access to the
* Internet is a basic human right: "the same rights people have
* offline must also be protected online."
* mass surveillance, NSA
* no backdoors
* secure
* made by someone who cares
* mainline support
* non modifiable readable BootROM
* no NDAs
* firmware and kernel sources GPL
* Pop it in it will work
* share housings/cards with family members
* money-saving
* pre-installed OS
* works out of the box
* low power consumption
* off grid computing solution
* modular
* 3D-Print replacement parts
* print locally (reduces shipping and saves
* shipping costs for tiny plastic parts)
* repairable
you add some information)
* good enough computing
* minimalistc, reduce stuff, travel light ->
* go for just a bare computer card
* reduce, reuse, recycle
* stop forced upgrades which force you to
* throw away a working computer
* CAD-Files available
* schematics
* datasheets
* no NDAs
* firmware and kernel sources GPL
* print your own parts
* build your custom solution
It may be a good idea to collect some personal stories.
For example I bought a Netbook 5 years ago and use it a lot. If I
would use a non-free OS the netbook would already be obsolete (forced
upgrade). Recently I noticed that I wish the netbook to be just a
netbook housing and that I just could upgrade the computer card and
double the RAM (the netbook only has 1GB).
Be part of the revolution!
No more forced-upgrades!
Live the manufacturers nightmare!
Break the throw-away cycle - start the age of modular good-enough
computing!
If you have critique, questions, suggestions, thoughts and comments
please let me know. Collaboratin is very welcome.
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[Allan Mwenda]

Definitely put no royalty fees at the top.

How to market eoma68 vs intel card in a positive way?
Heres a go, please edit,suggest as you feel. hmm sounds like a wiki
page
*Grass roots developed - made by someone who cares
*Any processor make
*Made with free software and its developers in mind. to help advance
and
fund free software.
*Hardware that just works for free software and there for any software
*Makes it easier for the creation and maintenance of many, yet to be
thought of, new devices.
*Higher Spec additional standard EOMA200 in the works after current
ones
products are in the market.
*Smaller, extra compact card Spec, EOMACF addition also on the future
list.
*Only certification fees. No royalty fees
*Made by for profit making but good will first company, as opposite to
extreme maximising company. The priority is the best computer card
standards.
*EOMA68 is spec’ed for lower power consuming devices. ideal for battery
power devices. See future EOMA200 for high power consumption / more
powerful computers(SOCS)
*hmm what else?
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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Allan Mwenda
Definitely put no royalty fees at the top.

to be taken seriously, like for example the HDMI standard, compliance
with the EOMA68 standard has to be outsourced to accredited
Certification Companies (such as ACG-Cert).

these companies, obviously, will need to be paid. it will,
obviously, be a one-off cost per test. recertification _is_ likely to
be needed... again this will, obviously, be a one-off cost per test.

i don't see any need for "royalties".

l.

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[Allan Mwenda]

Indeed there is no need for royalties, and the lack of it is worth advertising and will grab attention.
I also think you should advertise the low power of the standard that's a big plus.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Allan Mwenda
Definitely put no royalty fees at the top.

to be taken seriously, like for example the HDMI standard, compliance
with the EOMA68 standard has to be outsourced to accredited
Certification Companies (such as ACG-Cert).
these companies, obviously, will need to be paid. it will,
obviously, be a one-off cost per test. recertification _is_ likely to
be needed... again this will, obviously, be a one-off cost per test.
i don't see any need for "royalties".
l.
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[Alain Williams]

Post by Allan Mwenda
Indeed there is no need for royalties, and the lack of it is worth advertising and will grab attention.
I also think you should advertise the low power of the standard that's a big plus.

Which exposes one of the problems that Open Source/Spec/... projects have
compared to Closed ones. Things like royalties do provide cash for things like
marketing.

How about adding to certification a marketing/... 'requirement'? Something
about prominence on packaging/web-site/... of EOMA68. This would help the non
technical public recognise what they were buying and give confidence that it
would work with their existing kit.

The cost of this to vendors will be minimal and will not be a barrier to true
Open projects.

One other thing that would help with this is an 'official' logo that
certification would permit use of. Think the USB one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USB_Icon.svg

Discuss.
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Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
[phone] http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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Post by Alain Williams

Post by Allan Mwenda
Indeed there is no need for royalties, and the lack of it is worth advertising and will grab attention.
I also think you should advertise the low power of the standard that's a big plus.

Which exposes one of the problems that Open Source/Spec/... projects have
compared to Closed ones. Things like royalties do provide cash for things like
marketing.

true

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[Allan Mwenda]

Its not really a problem, since the funds are basically from strong arming manufacturers with "royalties" and EOMA68 so far has been an ethical project. Indeed a logo is a brilliant idea, and use of it only by certified products would be excellent. I think also you should be prepared for Chinese clones, they'll definitely happen, the question is whether you'll make it easy for them to be proper ones.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Alain Williams

Post by Allan Mwenda
Indeed there is no need for royalties, and the lack of it is worth

advertising and will grab attention.

Post by Alain Williams

Post by Allan Mwenda
I also think you should advertise the low power of the standard

that's a big plus.

Post by Alain Williams
Which exposes one of the problems that Open Source/Spec/... projects

have

Post by Alain Williams
compared to Closed ones. Things like royalties do provide cash for

things like

Post by Alain Williams
marketing.

true
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[Alain Williams]

Post by Allan Mwenda
Its not really a problem, since the funds are basically from strong
arming manufacturers with "royalties" and EOMA68 so far has been an
ethical project. Indeed a logo is a brilliant idea, and use of it only
Indeed a logo is a brilliant idea, and use of it only
by certified products would be excellent.

OK: anyone know of an artist type who could come up with a few ideas ?

Post by Allan Mwenda
I think also you should be
prepared for Chinese clones, they'll definitely happen, the question is
whether you'll make it easy for them to be proper ones.

Hmmm: I suspect that we are thinking about Chinese clones (Cc) from just one point of view.

Ours (well, mine at least) is: do they conform to the various licences and provide
source as required under the GPL, etc ?

There are much more important considerations: do the Cc conform to the
electrical/... specs ? If they do not then there might be a risk to human life.
Consider one that draws too much power or over heats and thus causes a fire. We
have all seen footage of exploding 'phone chargers. Less dramatic problems could
damage consumer equipment.

If the Ccs decide that they like EOMA68 and flood the market with sub standard
kit then the good name of EOMA68 could become tarnished. Once Joe Public
perception becomes ''EOMA68 == crap/dangerous'' then it becomes dead or niche.

Thus: certification is good and a logo/trademark would help the various consumer
protection bodies around the world to help protect the public -- and so,
vicariously, us.

We want to make it easy/cheap for the good guys while making it clear who the
bad Ccs are.



I am reminded of the firefox/iceweasle spat:

https://lwn.net/Articles/676799/

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/trademarks/policy/
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Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
[phone] http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
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[Allan Mwenda]

A proper clone to me would
1. Be up to standard hardware wise
2. Run the same software as the Libre Tea/Numero Uno variants (or a perhaps a Chinese distro like Deep in) but hopefully not some pirated windows IoT

For 1. I think just having a proper documentation out there in Chinese that is relatively short that's basically "quick guide to eoma68 compliance for OEMs" would save a lot of headaches with exploding eoma68 cards
For 2. I think it should be clear from you these things run gnu/linux in the documentation.
Just a few thoughts on the matter.

Post by Allan Mwenda

Post by Allan Mwenda
Its not really a problem, since the funds are basically from

strong

Post by Allan Mwenda
arming manufacturers with "royalties" and EOMA68 so far has been

an

Post by Allan Mwenda
ethical project. Indeed a logo is a brilliant idea, and use of it

only

Post by Allan Mwenda
Indeed a logo is a brilliant idea, and use of it only
by certified products would be excellent.

OK: anyone know of an artist type who could come up with a few ideas ?

Post by Allan Mwenda
I think also you should be
prepared for Chinese clones, they'll definitely happen, the

question is

Post by Allan Mwenda
whether you'll make it easy for them to be proper ones.

Hmmm: I suspect that we are thinking about Chinese clones (Cc) from just one point of view.
Ours (well, mine at least) is: do they conform to the various licences and provide
source as required under the GPL, etc ?
There are much more important considerations: do the Cc conform to the
electrical/... specs ? If they do not then there might be a risk to human life.
Consider one that draws too much power or over heats and thus causes a fire. We
have all seen footage of exploding 'phone chargers. Less dramatic problems could
damage consumer equipment.
If the Ccs decide that they like EOMA68 and flood the market with sub standard
kit then the good name of EOMA68 could become tarnished. Once Joe Public
perception becomes ''EOMA68 == crap/dangerous'' then it becomes dead or niche.
Thus: certification is good and a logo/trademark would help the various consumer
protection bodies around the world to help protect the public -- and so,
vicariously, us.
We want to make it easy/cheap for the good guys while making it clear who the
bad Ccs are.
https://lwn.net/Articles/676799/
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/trademarks/policy/
--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
[phone] http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
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[Tor, the Marqueteur]

A proper clone [of an EOMA68 card] to me would
1. Be up to standard hardware wise

Looks good

2. Run the same software as the Libre Tea/Numero Uno variants (or a
perhaps a Chinese distro like Deep in) but hopefully not some pirated
windows IoT

My impression is that EOMA68 is Libre Hardware. Last I checked, one of
the tenets of Libre Hardware is that the hardware runs anything the owner
of the HW feels like coercing into running on the device.

For 2. I think it should be clear from you these things run gnu/linux in the documentation.

A suggestion might work, but there are other things one might conceivably
run that are also Libre Software without being GNU/Linux. BSD comes to
mind, but AFAICT, there is nothing stopping someone from producing a
purpose built embedded system for a card, or even a card that doesn't
make sense to put in half the EOMA68 housings because of the way that
embedded system works, as long as it provides the proper signals on the
proper pins.

EOMA50 would be better for it, but something like a digital audio player
might like an OS tailored to understand its buttons, and the card with
that OS installed on it might be a bit screwy to use for a laptop (or
phone). Nevertheless, IIUC, as long as nothing will blow up, and you get
some semblance of usable output, it's still OK by the standard.

Tor

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Tor, the Marqueteur

Post by Tor, the Marqueteur
EOMA50 would be better for it, but something like a digital audio player
might like an OS tailored to understand its buttons, and the card with
that OS installed on it might be a bit screwy to use for a laptop (or
phone). Nevertheless, IIUC, as long as nothing will blow up, and you get
some semblance of usable output, it's still OK by the standard.

pretty much.... yyeah. examples include the passthrough card that i
quickly designed a couple of weeks ago: i connected an STM32F072's SPI
pins to the EOMA68 SDMMC, because it's _barely_ compliant... if you
want 4-pin you can do bit-banging.... which willl be horribly slow on
a 72mhz Cortex M0 especially given that the STM32F072's USB bus is USB
1.1 (11mbit/sec) but that's not a problem as far as the *standard* is
concerned.

other examples include the (failed, sadly) IC1t which used the
opencores.org vga controller (yes, really!) and the bandwidth was so
limited on the framebuffer "reader" (wishbone bus, 16-bit-wide) that
if you wanted 1366x768 you had to do it as monochrome (!)... but,
again, that's *not* a problem as far as the *standard* is concerned.
in the strictest sense, it can achieve 1366x768 output... just with
only black/white.

another is the jz4775 which has 2 USB interfaces - one of them is USB
1.1: again, not a problem: it'll work... just.

so there's lots of flexibility: any one SoC needs to comply with the
absolute bare minimum, so that if people *really want* to pay only $11
for a Card they can, and if they want better they can pay $150 for an
RK3288 with 4GB RAM and 32GB ultra-fast eMMC.

l.

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[Alain Williams]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
so there's lots of flexibility: any one SoC needs to comply with the
absolute bare minimum, so that if people *really want* to pay only $11
for a Card they can, and if they want better they can pay $150 for an
RK3288 with 4GB RAM and 32GB ultra-fast eMMC.

What assurance can we give the technically uninterested end user that the $11
card that works with their $30 toaster will not blow up their $1000 TV when
their 6 year old swaps the cards ? I don't care if it does not work in the TV,
but the consumer will be upset if it draws too much power (or something) and
damages the TV.

My question is one about branding, or regulation of the standard, to stop ''cheap
chinese cloners'' from wrecking the public perception of EOMA68.
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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

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Post by Alain Williams

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
so there's lots of flexibility: any one SoC needs to comply with the
absolute bare minimum, so that if people *really want* to pay only $11
for a Card they can, and if they want better they can pay $150 for an
RK3288 with 4GB RAM and 32GB ultra-fast eMMC.

What assurance can we give the technically uninterested end user that the $11
card that works with their $30 toaster will not blow up their $1000 TV when
their 6 year old swaps the cards ? I don't care if it does not work in the TV,
but the consumer will be upset if it draws too much power (or something) and
damages the TV.

it won't receive Cerfitication if it hasn't been tested.
Certification will REQUIRE that the manufacturer provide a number of
working samples, so that over the years the Certification Company can
do a full matrix of tests as each new product (on either side of the
standard) comes along.

if any third party fails to comply with the standard (thus bringing
it into disrepute by damaging third party products), the Certification
Mark is there to be able to jump on them with a ton of bricks, china
or no china.

l.

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