Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] HummingBoard becomes partially what eoma would've been
Lauri Kasanen
2014-07-06 11:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the
outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.

So while the interface is not open I believe, that's getting closer to
what eoma would have been. Thought to let you know.

- Lauri
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-07-06 17:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lauri Kasanen
Hi,
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the
outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
So while the interface is not open I believe, that's getting closer to
what eoma would have been. Thought to let you know.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i
designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place
the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other
physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who
have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of
anti-static precautions and so on.

so it is very different.

l.
Stéphane Goujet
2014-07-06 18:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Lauri Kasanen
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the
outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i
designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place
the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other
physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who
have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of
anti-static precautions and so on.
so it is very different.
Er... what ? A specially trained engineer was never required to change a
RAM module, a CPU or CPU module, or plug an ISA/PCI/AGP/PCIe card on a
motherboard.


Bye,
Stéphane.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-07-06 18:16:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Stéphane Goujet
Post by Stéphane Goujet
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Lauri Kasanen
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the
outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i
designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place
the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other
physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who
have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of
anti-static precautions and so on.
so it is very different.
Er... what ? A specially trained engineer was never required to change a
RAM module, a CPU or CPU module, or plug an ISA/PCI/AGP/PCIe card on a
motherboard.
how long does it take to press a PCMCIA button and pop out the CPU
Card? 2 seconds absolute maximum.

what tools does it require? none.

what special precautions are needed? none that are not the domain of
common sense.

all the other examples require tools, special handling (you cannot
touch the gold edges or pins), and some considerable amount of time.
in the case of replacing a CPU it takes a lot of time because
depending on the design the heatsink also needs to be replaced, and
the paste renewed.

so it is _completely_ different, stephane.

l.
joem
2014-07-07 06:52:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
all the other examples require tools, special handling (you cannot
touch the gold edges or pins),
That it is hardly true these days. Inputs are protected with 2kV ESD
diodes for some time now - ever since days
of the A series CMOS was learned and the B series came out (decades
ago).

But it is still possible to get unprotected devices that operate
at high frequency such as GaAs MOSFETs
used for RF because the protection would slow it down too much.

(ESD precaution continues to be recommended for products
with exposed pins because it is not 100%
possible to be sure what the ESD is doing in every combination of
circuit design. The strength of ESD discharge can be very different
between different buildings. I remember in one tiled factory
space, the discharge to any earthed equipment could send one flying.)
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-07-07 13:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by joem
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
all the other examples require tools, special handling (you cannot
touch the gold edges or pins),
That it is hardly true these days. Inputs are protected with 2kV ESD
diodes for some time now - ever since days
of the A series CMOS was learned and the B series came out (decades
ago).
when i said "put in pocket" i really meant "put in pocket".
unprotected. carry it around in a handbag. give it to school kids
who put it between books and then sit on the books.

SOMs simply cannot survive that kind of treatment: they are
engineering boards and simply will not survive.

i demonstrate the CPU Card to people by literally banging it on the
edge of a desk. as it is so light it makes a lot of noise and does no
harm to it.

if you bang a SOM on the edge of a desk you are going to break off
components, bend pins, destroy tracks and the gold edging will get oil
and dirt from fingers as you hold them in order to bash them against
the desk.

also, about the installation: imagine explaining over the telephone
to your 80-year-old grandmother how to swap out the CPU of her PC.

now imagine explaining how to swap a CPU Card. "see the card on the
side? press the button next to it, dear".

one of those scenarios will take two days because you will have to
travel over, pick the machine up and either do it yourself or take it
to the repair shop. the other may take anywhere between thirty
seconds and an hour depending on your level of patience...

completely, completely different market.

l.
Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross
2014-07-07 17:49:45 UTC
Permalink
eoma-* is not a dev board. you can _make_ dev boards from eoma-*.
devboards like hummingboard is only, is just for you diy robot.
eoma-68/cf is for your work & play & make. for most of your computing
needs in a human life. completely different markets.

however eoma-* with a devboard or to call it a name that nudges towards
a slightly~ different way of thinking: a improvising board, something
that enables you to create, something for which a nice shiny device
doesn't exist as well a computer for you robot, fireworks controller, etc.

a improvising board enables you to easily create, a dev board enables
you to do x+y=z urrggh unless your a techy who likes getting into those
details or the manage the maintenance job of maintaining software,
waiting for a board of the right size,specs,soc when you want to upgrade
it (for example your project is a diy handheld pocket computer) what a
pain that all is, does not enable me to create a diy handheld pocket
comptuer, enables/forces me to be a deep developer - I don't want that
additional work.

so the mini desktop board is perhaps a improvise board, it's not a shiny
device in it's self but it enables you to improvise and turn you tv into
a media center, just stick it on the back of your tv. It doesn't have
gpio but then this not for you robot. it has vga instead of lcd for
flips sake. use a different improvise board that is more suitable for
enabling you to create your robot. notice your using the same platform
for a media center and a robot. these completely different groups err
can benefit from each other, improvements made by the people who are
more technical go back into the same platform.

for the first time with eoma-* it's economically viable to groups to
produce a improvise board dedicated to a robot, tv media center,
quardchopter, etc. this reduces the barrier to entry - the time it
takes, the skills needed to make it and I guess help reduce the cost of
making these things if in bigger enough numbers. also why are you
building these things? is it because it cheeper then buying
pre-built/existing product? well you love a improvise quardchopter
eoma-* board as all you have to do is connect the motors via a plug and
socket, the usb wifi dongle, cheep 3rd hand usb webcam and strap it to
the (3d printed) frame - done, that was easy :D

image a load of these improvise kits or prebuilt things if the cost
works out or then again why buy a per-built quardchopter (which would be
more bulky than a non-prebuilt thing and so more expensive shipping)
when you can print the parts and buy the electronics goodie bag and put
it together and fly it within a day?!
anyway imagine a occupy moment-like protest. people arrive with there 3d
printers or pre printed parts and a hole crowed of newbies put a army
of quardchopters together and put them to work documenting, vidioing the
protest, providing internet via wifi (?) to every one. these newbies
easily control it with there smartphonething thanks to the floss
software thx to fantastic people who wrote it. btw the software on the
eoma-* card was just "sudo apt-get install quardchopter" (you can
install the quardchopter package using a gui package manger on you
tablet then you swap the card into the quardchopter !) how easy and cool
is that! wow :D :D

eoma-* enables you to live, work, play, create & do, oh btw using the
same platform. this was a example of create.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-07-07 20:08:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross
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eoma-* is not a dev board. you can _make_ dev boards from eoma-*.
devboards like hummingboard is only, is just for you diy robot.
eoma-68/cf is for your work & play & make. for most of your computing
needs in a human life. completely different markets.
one of the key goals is to reduce the cost of ownership of the main
part of a portable modular computer because you can just go down to
the local shop, buy an off-the-shelf CPU Card and then use that as the
basis for a cool electronics project.... but then when you're done
with that go and sell it on ebay to grandma or a teenager for them to
put android back on it and use it to run their laptop, tablet or their
TV. you cannot tell me that this is even a remote possibility for
SOMs.

l.

mike.valk
2014-07-07 08:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Lauri Kasanen
Hi,
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the
outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
So while the interface is not open I believe, that's getting closer to
what eoma would have been. Thought to let you know.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i
designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place
the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other
physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who
have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of
anti-static precautions and so on.
so it is very different.
Indeed; The design is based on a iMX6 specfic SoM, So the HB and the
Cubox-I are build around one specific type of CPU's/SoC. The OEMA SoM is
CPU/SoC independent. Hence the limited set of interfaces available on a
EOMA card.

Building a RPi compatible 'baseboard' that has a EOMA-68 interface is no
problem, IMHO. Might even be a good idea in order to ride the 'RPi' wave.

The SolidRun "Micro-SoM" does show that a EOMA-CF with and iMX6 is possible.
http://download.solid-run.com/pub/solidrun/SR-uSOM-mx6/rev-1.2_1.3/

The SolidRun "Micro-SoM" = 30x47mm
A CF = 43×36

The SolidRun "Micro-SoM" exposes a lot of interfaces which are not needed
on a EOMA-CF.

P.S. The Sata spec on the EOMA-CF should be booted also right?
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
l.
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