Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] Support for sunxi-based ARM systems in d-i
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-04-27 13:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
I am currently working on better support for sunxi-based ARM systems
in d-i and flash-kernel. Thanks to Ian's backport of the sunxi AHCI
support from kernel 3.15rc1 into the Debian 3.14 kernel package (as
of linux-image-3.14-trunk-armmp_3.14.1-1~exp2_armhf.deb, currently
only available as source in git) it is now possible to run d-i on
Allwinner A10/A20-based systems like the Cubie{board,board2,truck}.
hoooraaaaay! congratulations. this is an awesome strategic
achievement. it will not stop people doing stupid things like forcing
their personal preferred settings onto others when distributing
ridiculously large (4gbyte) fixed size root images but it at least
provides an alternative... one that is a sub-5mbyte alternative at
that.

do you have a pre-built option or some instructions for people to follow?

l.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-04-27 18:32:10 UTC
Permalink
No uImage is required for sunxi,
no uImage is required for sunxi but a uImage is required for *debian
installer*. that is after all the whole point of the exercise. ok,
sure you can put debian-installer onto an SD card directly but then
you will not be able to install the OS onto the SD card because debian
installer will be using it.

karsten it would seem that you are being mis-advised by people not
familiar with debian installer, who think that booting off of
pre-prepared images is quotes normal quotes.

although it would in some limited cases be useful to boot debian
installer without a uImage, it would not be the most helpful thing to
the most people.

may i respectfully suggest that you speak to henrik nordstrom (hno) -
you can find him on #linux-sunxi - and get a uImage up and running
that may be loaded over the USB-FEL. henrik and others such as myself
have got USB-FEL up and running for a number of A10 and A20 devices:
the advantage of boot-installing a device from USB-FEL is that it is
simple to do: just plug in to a Micro-USB, load the 1st stage
bootloader directly into RAM, load the kernel directly into RAM, load
the debian installer uImage directly into RAM, then hit the execute
command. instantly you have all the hardware available on which to
install a *clean* OS.

l.
Ian Campbell
2014-04-27 18:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
No uImage is required for sunxi,
no uImage is required for sunxi but a uImage is required for *debian
installer*. that is after all the whole point of the exercise.
What on earth are you on about? Debian installer has absolutely no
requirement for uImage. uImages purely a per-platform requirement based
on the feature set of the u-boot on the system.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ok,
sure you can put debian-installer onto an SD card directly but then
you will not be able to install the OS onto the SD card because debian
installer will be using it.
Where did anyone in this thread talk about putting d-i onto an SD card?
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
karsten it would seem that you are being mis-advised by people not
familiar with debian installer, who think that booting off of
pre-prepared images is quotes normal quotes.
Are you referring to me here? I assure you that I am quite familiar with
debian installer and am not at all in the habits of using pre-prepared
images.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
although it would in some limited cases be useful to boot debian
installer without a uImage, it would not be the most helpful thing to
the most people.
Utter rubbish.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
may i respectfully suggest that you speak to henrik nordstrom (hno) -
you can find him on #linux-sunxi - and get a uImage up and running
that may be loaded over the USB-FEL. henrik and others such as myself
the advantage of boot-installing a device from USB-FEL is that it is
simple to do: just plug in to a Micro-USB, load the 1st stage
bootloader directly into RAM, load the kernel directly into RAM, load
the debian installer uImage directly into RAM, then hit the execute
command. instantly you have all the hardware available on which to
install a *clean* OS.
FEL is a good idea for something to support, but it is completely
unrelated to uImage AFAICT.

Ian.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-04-27 19:10:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Campbell
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
No uImage is required for sunxi,
no uImage is required for sunxi but a uImage is required for *debian
installer*. that is after all the whole point of the exercise.
What on earth are you on about? Debian installer has absolutely no
requirement for uImage.
we may be talking at cross-purposes, then. my understanding of
debian installer is that in its most stripped down form it is the
minimalist netboot system that is typically loaded over PXE networks.

frans pop before his death kindly created a debian installer kernel
and uImage for the CT-PC89e. it allowed the people who bought that
ARM-based 9in laptop to boot cleanly off of external media, wipe the
NAND flash as if it was a standard drive. as the machine came with a
pre-loaded proprietary GPL-violating OS this was kinda important.

perhaps it would help to clarify what you have in mind, when you hear
the words šdebian installerš?

l.
Ian Campbell
2014-04-27 19:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Ian Campbell
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
No uImage is required for sunxi,
no uImage is required for sunxi but a uImage is required for *debian
installer*. that is after all the whole point of the exercise.
What on earth are you on about? Debian installer has absolutely no
requirement for uImage.
we may be talking at cross-purposes, then. my understanding of
debian installer is that in its most stripped down form it is the
minimalist netboot system that is typically loaded over PXE networks.
Which has nothing to do with uImage.

A uImage is a historic u-boot container format containing a Linux zImage
(also often called a "vmlinuz"), which was booted using the "bootm"
command. This is no longer needed and the zImage can be booted directly
with the u-boot "bootz" command.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
frans pop before his death kindly created a debian installer kernel
and uImage for the CT-PC89e. it allowed the people who bought that
ARM-based 9in laptop to boot cleanly off of external media, wipe the
NAND flash as if it was a standard drive.
Maybe this platform had a bootloader which needed a uImage, that is not
the common case today and is certainly not the case with sunxi.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
perhaps it would help to clarify what you have in mind, when you hear
the words šdebian installerš?
I mean the Debian Installer, the development of which is the subject of
the debian-boot list where this thread originated and the thing which
Karsten was posting patches against.

The current daily builds of Debian Installer for the next version of
Debian can be found at:
http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-armhf/current/images/armmp/netboot/

initrd.gz and vmlinux-foo in there can be booted as is on sunxi (and
many other armv7 systems) from the u-boot prompt using bootz, or using
PXE or (on sunxi) by using FEL.

If you want to hijack this thread to talk about some other thing which
you want to call "debian installer" then please leave me out of it.

Ian.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-04-28 06:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Campbell
A uImage is a historic u-boot container format containing a Linux zImage
(also often called a "vmlinuz"), which was booted using the "bootm"
command. This is no longer needed and the zImage can be booted directly
with the u-boot "bootz" command.
ah then i understand the source of the confusion. i was referring to
zImage not uImage. i apologise therefore for that because it has been
the source of confusion for much of this thread.

anyway, good luck with your endeavours, i wish you all success with
your efforts.

l.

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-04-27 19:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Hello,
I am currently working on better support for sunxi-based ARM systems
in d-i and flash-kernel. Thanks to Ian's backport of the sunxi AHCI
support from kernel 3.15rc1 into the Debian 3.14 kernel package (as
of linux-image-3.14-trunk-armmp_3.14.1-1~exp2_armhf.deb, currently
only available as source in git) it is now possible to run d-i on
Allwinner A10/A20-based systems like the Cubie{board,board2,truck}.
[snip]
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
do you have a pre-built option or some instructions for people to follow?
Sorry, no. This was an experimental build with all components
locally built from development versions in various git/svn
repositories.
ok - then can you please document that somewhere, so that other
people can replicate it and help you out?
As mentioned in my original mail there is also still the issue of
the MMC driver not yet being available in mainline,
thatÂŽs ok. forget mainline. if you document what youÂŽve done then
others may replicate it on the more stable kernels.

l.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2014-04-27 19:15:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Hello,
I am currently working on better support for sunxi-based ARM systems
in d-i and flash-kernel. Thanks to Ian's backport of the sunxi AHCI
support from kernel 3.15rc1 into the Debian 3.14 kernel package (as
of linux-image-3.14-trunk-armmp_3.14.1-1~exp2_armhf.deb, currently
only available as source in git) it is now possible to run d-i on
Allwinner A10/A20-based systems like the Cubie{board,board2,truck}.
[snip]
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
do you have a pre-built option or some instructions for people to follow?
Sorry, no. This was an experimental build with all components
locally built from development versions in various git/svn
repositories.
ok - then can you please document that somewhere, so that other
people can replicate it and help you out?
As mentioned in my original mail there is also still the issue of
the MMC driver not yet being available in mainline,
thatÂŽs ok. forget mainline. if you document what youÂŽve done then
others may replicate it on the more stable kernels.
Luke, Debian uses upstream kernels with minimal backporting.
... which is not yet complete, meaning that that will reach only a
small handful of people. if you want to reach more people, thus
increasing the probability of more people being in a position to help
use upstream kernels with minimal backporting, then bridging the gap
between the two would seem like a good idea, would you agree?

anyway - iÂŽm done here. you guys are doing ok. i have had to take
other work - for the second time now - which places the project that i
started on a back-burner until we have sales or funding.

so please, feel free to do whatever you choose.

l.
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