Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] Logos
John Luke Gibson
2017-01-26 07:04:56 UTC
Permalink
I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper historical
reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that
they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my
opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the
clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects
[such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very
richer history of use by "hacktivists".

Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii
iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat tip
to communities which support said historical events will cause the
logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had
specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a
subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various
letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note.

Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip
our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume us
to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later
due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without
damaging the recognize-ability of any logo.

The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic.
A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle enough
correlation to the blender logo.

This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans".

Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random
corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a
history to fall back on. However originality might also help
distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to
fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation.

I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using
the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would like
to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in
the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million
dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per
their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their
personal admonishment that they failed to do enough.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :)
i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into each
other kinda like a module.
I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled Meoo
like a cat.
So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68 card in
its paws?
sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion, never
thought id be making one heh.
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Allan Mwenda
2017-01-27 06:11:08 UTC
Permalink
Definitely no cats too.
I think the caps font used in the logo example previously is great.
Adding to that, I think we should not put libre in the logo. If someone wants that let them sweat extra for RYF certification.
Post by John Luke Gibson
I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper historical
reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that
they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my
opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the
clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects
[such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very
richer history of use by "hacktivists".
Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii
iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat tip
to communities which support said historical events will cause the
logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had
specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a
subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various
letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note.
Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip
our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume us
to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later
due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without
damaging the recognize-ability of any logo.
The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic.
A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle enough
correlation to the blender logo.
This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and
"slogans".
Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random
corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a
history to fall back on. However originality might also help
distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to
fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation.
I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using
the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would like
to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in
the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million
dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per
their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their
personal admonishment that they failed to do enough.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :)
i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into each
other kinda like a module.
I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled
Meoo
like a cat.
So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68 card
in
its paws?
sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion, never
thought id be making one heh.
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Julie Marchant
2017-01-27 06:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Just a somewhat random suggestion:

Perhaps "EOMA" should be spelled in lowercase, "eoma", next to the logo.
That would encourage people to speak it like a word, rather than saying
each letter in sequence ("ee-oh-em-aye"). I find that non-technical
people tend to default to the latter when they see anything in all caps
(it's rare to hear non-technical people say "ping" for PNG, "gooey" for
GUI, "g'nu" for GNU, etc). This is only a minor problem in most cases,
but if people try to think of "EOMA" as an initialism, they could find
it harder to remember.

Showing people that you're supposed to say it like a word also kind of
makes it look less intimidating.
--
Julie Marchant
https://onpon4.github.io

Protect your emails with GnuPG:
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-09-22 16:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julie Marchant
Perhaps "EOMA" should be spelled in lowercase, "eoma", next to the logo.
That would encourage people to speak it like a word, rather than saying
each letter in sequence ("ee-oh-em-aye"). I find that non-technical
people tend to default to the latter when they see anything in all caps
hi i saw this go by very quickly when travelling and it's quite
insightful, so wanted to acknowledge that (and actually respond
on-topic for the thread for once) :)

i found that interestingly, americans pronounce "A" as "eh". i've
always, always pronounced it ee-oh-merh/muh

so, thank you julie.

l.

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John Luke Gibson
2017-01-27 09:39:46 UTC
Permalink
There are two ways to interprete that bear in mind.
We probably want the logo to contain libre (or references/parts
thereof), but you would be right to say we probably don't want libre
itself in the logo.

We don't want to hinge too much on the fact we promote libre, because
optimally libre would be ~~assumed~~ in all things computer. We don't
want to set the theme that it should be a buzz word, however it should
represent a standard of the way things simply should be.

That being said, while we don't want libre to symbolize eoma, we still
want eoma to symbolize libre and we still want a logo which reminds
people of that and allows the one's who care to take solace in the
presence of our logo. Don't forget!
Post by Allan Mwenda
Definitely no cats too.
I think the caps font used in the logo example previously is great.
Adding to that, I think we should not put libre in the logo. If someone
wants that let them sweat extra for RYF certification.
On January 26, 2017 10:04:56 AM GMT+03:00, John Luke Gibson
Post by John Luke Gibson
I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper historical
reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that
they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my
opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the
clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects
[such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very
richer history of use by "hacktivists".
Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii
iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat tip
to communities which support said historical events will cause the
logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had
specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a
subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various
letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note.
Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip
our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume us
to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later
due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without
damaging the recognize-ability of any logo.
The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic.
A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle enough
correlation to the blender logo.
This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans".
Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random
corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a
history to fall back on. However originality might also help
distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to
fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation.
I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using
the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would like
to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in
the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million
dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per
their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their
personal admonishment that they failed to do enough.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :)
i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into each
other kinda like a module.
I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled
Meoo
like a cat.
So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68 card
in
its paws?
sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion, never
thought id be making one heh.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Allan Mwenda
2017-01-27 16:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Well, the EOMA68-A20 is only fully libre in the libre tea card version.
Now that I think further into it, are the standard/hardware designs some sort of copyleft to compell third parties to also share their card designs back?
Anyway, it is very likely that if someone else picks this up, who isn't as diligent as Luke, they will make a not so libre card and try passing it off as libre using the logo (if it says so in the eoma logo, and the card passes eoma certification) FSFs definition is the strictest and the RYF certification is already worth its weight, in that, if you can convince FSF something is libre, there's very little chance it isn't. A good example is the Librem 13 laptop, which was initially marketed as libre ( but wasn't even close) which breezed it through funding and is now marketed as "privacy respecting" after failing RYF.
Post by John Luke Gibson
There are two ways to interprete that bear in mind.
We probably want the logo to contain libre (or references/parts
thereof), but you would be right to say we probably don't want libre
itself in the logo.
We don't want to hinge too much on the fact we promote libre, because
optimally libre would be ~~assumed~~ in all things computer. We don't
want to set the theme that it should be a buzz word, however it should
represent a standard of the way things simply should be.
That being said, while we don't want libre to symbolize eoma, we still
want eoma to symbolize libre and we still want a logo which reminds
people of that and allows the one's who care to take solace in the
presence of our logo. Don't forget!
Post by Allan Mwenda
Definitely no cats too.
I think the caps font used in the logo example previously is great.
Adding to that, I think we should not put libre in the logo. If
someone
Post by Allan Mwenda
wants that let them sweat extra for RYF certification.
On January 26, 2017 10:04:56 AM GMT+03:00, John Luke Gibson
Post by John Luke Gibson
I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper
historical
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that
they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my
opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the
clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects
[such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very
richer history of use by "hacktivists".
Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii
iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat
tip
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
to communities which support said historical events will cause the
logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had
specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a
subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various
letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note.
Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip
our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume
us
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later
due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without
damaging the recognize-ability of any logo.
The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic.
A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle
enough
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
correlation to the blender logo.
This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans".
Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random
corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a
history to fall back on. However originality might also help
distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to
fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation.
I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using
the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would
like
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in
the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million
dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per
their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their
personal admonishment that they failed to do enough.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :)
i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into
each
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
other kinda like a module.
I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled
Meoo
like a cat.
So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68
card
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
in
its paws?
sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion,
never
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
thought id be making one heh.
_______________________________________________
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--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Parobalth
2017-01-27 21:03:02 UTC
Permalink
After reading all replies and thinking about them I realized that I have
unintentionally made some mistakes and also did not communicate clear
enough.
Because of the discussion about intel-cards and chinese clones I took
inspiration from other certification marks and sigils. What I called a
placeholder logo in my previous email should have been called a
placeholder certification sigil.
It is correct that a logo needs to be quite scalable and that too much
text or text at all can be problematic especially when you need it
rather small as an icon.
On Wednesday I made some quick sketches and tests around the ideas to
use a big capital "E" and somehow fill in the other letters. To get
enough space I stretched the "E" and realized that I know an already
existing logo working on the same principle: It is the logo of the
Electronic Frontier Foundation that you can see here:
https://www.eff.org/press/logos
This can be a problem and I don't want the EOMA68 logo to look like a
rip-off. Without stretching the "E" space inside the letter is quite
limited. I also try to avoid designs where the letters "OMA" stand out
too much because it means grandmother in german and german is my native
language.

Today I decided to work with the base forms of the placeholder sigil --
blue circle and green circuit board. As requested I turned the card 90°
counter-clockwise. I added a second circle and while testing another
idea I coincidentally deformed the circle. I have to admit that I like
the result very much. It still represents green earth and blue ocean but
also an inserted computer card.
You can see it here:
Loading Image...
And with text underneath:
Loading Image...

I used a mono spaced font.
It may also look good to use a VGA-font for the text as a reference to
text-terminals and classic hackerdom but I could not find one already
available for the graphical user interface.

Some thoughts to other mentioned ideas:
I do not like the cat idea but maybe can be convinced by a clever
designed cat logo. :)
The idea about a dot in the "O" of EOMA made me think of fonts where the
dot is in the 0 (zero) to distinguish it from O (capital letter O) As we
all are somehow computer related I would find such a design confusing.
I can not contribute to ideas with "proper historical reference to
hacktivism and groups like anonymous" because I am not familiar with
their conventions.

More to come...but not today.
Goodnight!


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Allan Mwenda
2017-01-27 21:34:11 UTC
Permalink
I like this new logo it looks promising. Not feeling the yellow/orange for the font though and I'd probably bold it but yeah good stuff
Post by Parobalth
After reading all replies and thinking about them I realized that I have
unintentionally made some mistakes and also did not communicate clear
enough.
Because of the discussion about intel-cards and chinese clones I took
inspiration from other certification marks and sigils. What I called a
placeholder logo in my previous email should have been called a
placeholder certification sigil.
It is correct that a logo needs to be quite scalable and that too much
text or text at all can be problematic especially when you need it
rather small as an icon.
On Wednesday I made some quick sketches and tests around the ideas to
use a big capital "E" and somehow fill in the other letters. To get
enough space I stretched the "E" and realized that I know an already
existing logo working on the same principle: It is the logo of the
https://www.eff.org/press/logos
This can be a problem and I don't want the EOMA68 logo to look like a
rip-off. Without stretching the "E" space inside the letter is quite
limited. I also try to avoid designs where the letters "OMA" stand out
too much because it means grandmother in german and german is my native
language.
Today I decided to work with the base forms of the placeholder sigil --
blue circle and green circuit board. As requested I turned the card 90°
counter-clockwise. I added a second circle and while testing another
idea I coincidentally deformed the circle. I have to admit that I like
the result very much. It still represents green earth and blue ocean but
also an inserted computer card.
https://www.parobalth.org/eoma-logo/EOMA68-base-form.png
https://www.parobalth.org/eoma-logo/EOMA68-base-form-text.png
I used a mono spaced font.
It may also look good to use a VGA-font for the text as a reference to
text-terminals and classic hackerdom but I could not find one already
available for the graphical user interface.
I do not like the cat idea but maybe can be convinced by a clever
designed cat logo. :)
The idea about a dot in the "O" of EOMA made me think of fonts where the
dot is in the 0 (zero) to distinguish it from O (capital letter O) As we
all are somehow computer related I would find such a design confusing.
I can not contribute to ideas with "proper historical reference to
hacktivism and groups like anonymous" because I am not familiar with
their conventions.
More to come...but not today.
Goodnight!
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
John Luke Gibson
2017-01-27 21:28:01 UTC
Permalink
Hence why I agree entirely: the word libre should not be in the logo.

This shouldn't stop us from making subtle hints to the fact it is
something of a community that believes libre should be universal,
inside the logo.
Post by Allan Mwenda
Well, the EOMA68-A20 is only fully libre in the libre tea card version.
Now that I think further into it, are the standard/hardware designs some
sort of copyleft to compell third parties to also share their card designs
back?
Anyway, it is very likely that if someone else picks this up, who isn't as
diligent as Luke, they will make a not so libre card and try passing it off
as libre using the logo (if it says so in the eoma logo, and the card passes
eoma certification) FSFs definition is the strictest and the RYF
certification is already worth its weight, in that, if you can convince FSF
something is libre, there's very little chance it isn't. A good example is
the Librem 13 laptop, which was initially marketed as libre ( but wasn't
even close) which breezed it through funding and is now marketed as "privacy
respecting" after failing RYF.
On January 27, 2017 12:39:46 PM GMT+03:00, John Luke Gibson
Post by John Luke Gibson
There are two ways to interprete that bear in mind.
We probably want the logo to contain libre (or references/parts
thereof), but you would be right to say we probably don't want libre
itself in the logo.
We don't want to hinge too much on the fact we promote libre, because
optimally libre would be ~~assumed~~ in all things computer. We don't
want to set the theme that it should be a buzz word, however it should
represent a standard of the way things simply should be.
That being said, while we don't want libre to symbolize eoma, we still
want eoma to symbolize libre and we still want a logo which reminds
people of that and allows the one's who care to take solace in the
presence of our logo. Don't forget!
Post by Allan Mwenda
Definitely no cats too.
I think the caps font used in the logo example previously is great.
Adding to that, I think we should not put libre in the logo. If
someone
Post by Allan Mwenda
wants that let them sweat extra for RYF certification.
On January 26, 2017 10:04:56 AM GMT+03:00, John Luke Gibson
Post by John Luke Gibson
I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper
historical
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that
they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my
opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the
clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects
[such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very
richer history of use by "hacktivists".
Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii
iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat
tip
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
to communities which support said historical events will cause the
logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had
specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a
subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various
letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note.
Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip
our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume
us
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later
due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without
damaging the recognize-ability of any logo.
The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic.
A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle
enough
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
correlation to the blender logo.
This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans".
Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random
corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a
history to fall back on. However originality might also help
distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to
fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation.
I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using
the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would
like
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in
the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million
dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per
their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their
personal admonishment that they failed to do enough.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :)
i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into
each
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
other kinda like a module.
I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled
Meoo
like a cat.
So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68
card
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
in
its paws?
sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion,
never
Post by Allan Mwenda
Post by John Luke Gibson
thought id be making one heh.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-09-21 14:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Proprietary OSes and even no OS in the case of FPGAs is permitted, they
just cant put in DRM, and the Certification costs which are waived for
libre projects will be a LOT.
Post by John Luke Gibson
There are two ways to interprete that bear in mind.
We probably want the logo to contain libre (or references/parts
thereof), but you would be right to say we probably don't want libre
itself in the logo.
We don't want to hinge too much on the fact we promote libre, because
optimally libre would be ~~assumed~~ in all things computer. We don't
want to set the theme that it should be a buzz word, however it should
represent a standard of the way things simply should be.
That being said, while we don't want libre to symbolize eoma, we still
want eoma to symbolize libre and we still want a logo which reminds
people of that and allows the one's who care to take solace in the
presence of our logo. Don't forget!
Post by Allan Mwenda
Definitely no cats too.
I think the caps font used in the logo example previously is great.
Adding to that, I think we should not put libre in the logo. If someone
wants that let them sweat extra for RYF certification.
On January 26, 2017 10:04:56 AM GMT+03:00, John Luke Gibson
Post by John Luke Gibson
I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper historical
reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that
they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my
opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the
clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects
[such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very
richer history of use by "hacktivists".
Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii
iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat tip
to communities which support said historical events will cause the
logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had
specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a
subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various
letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note.
Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip
our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume us
to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later
due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without
damaging the recognize-ability of any logo.
The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic.
A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle enough
correlation to the blender logo.
This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans".
Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random
corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a
history to fall back on. However originality might also help
distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to
fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation.
I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using
the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would like
to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in
the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million
dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per
their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their
personal admonishment that they failed to do enough.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :)
i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into each
other kinda like a module.
I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled
Meoo
like a cat.
So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68 card
in
its paws?
sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion, never
thought id be making one heh.
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Jean Flamelle
2018-09-21 23:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Hm, I understand that in practice.

Just feels like a cop-out on paper.
Does anyone know about a mailing-list with ethereum programmers
who are as serious as Luke about getting stuff done the proper way?

Contract security seems like a joke these days.
And, for a VM with no hardware visibility,
EVM assembly seems unnecessarily complicated.

I feel like even for cryptocurrency detractors,
Taler could get implemented on ethereum.

Without a kickstarter or liberpay,
with customize-able rules,
like raising an advance fund,
for a free culture initiative.

Without advance funds,
I don't believe free culture
can effectively get funded.
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-09-22 00:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jean Flamelle
Without advance funds,
I don't believe free culture
can effectively get funded.
money is empowerment, it is stored energy (potential energy).

the key i found to a successful crowd-funding campaign was being able
to explain the "why", effectively. ethical technology had no "why"
until the consequences of *unethical* technology started to hit home.
example: someone just very recently sent me a link to assange's last
video before his internet and other communications were cut off by the
ecuadorian embassy.

l.

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Jean Flamelle
2018-09-22 01:48:02 UTC
Permalink
I don't like the word empowerment much, because I don't like the word
"power" as too vague and too loaded.

"Money" acts as a sybil certificate in a massive anonymous support
economy, a transfer-able proof-of-work.

I don't believe the opposite capitalism and communism take opposite
extremes, I believe communism and proprietary-ism do. The idea about a
community, means everyone could learn how to complete any task without
difficulty. That's the ideal.

If everyone knows how to complete every task and enough bodies lend
their support, money loses necessity.
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Christopher Havel
2018-09-22 02:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Forgive me chiming in with an admittedly esoteric viewpoint... but...

What if "money" was a system of measurement, without intrinsic value...?
What I'm envisioning is a barter economy, regulated somewhat like
communistic states do -- but using a standardized system of
worth-measurement.

So, say I had bricks of cheese, and you had boxes of eggs. Given that my
cheese is say 0.5kg/brick, and you have 12 eggs to a box, we'd look up how
much the gov't says our relative goods are worth, and exchange
proportionately. So, say, one kg of cheese is worth ten credits that day,
and three eggs is worth one credit, so I'd get fifteen eggs per brick of
cheese, or five boxes of eggs for every four bricks of cheese if I've got
my math right (sorry, I'm severely math-challenged -- to the level of
having some sort of otherwise-unnamed "math fluency disorder" that I was
labeled with in grade school... the gist is that I understand the
*concepts* on actually something of a slightly advanced level, but I can't
manage the actual *exercises*, real-world or textbook, without a
half-decent calculator).

Alternatively, in a less-regulated society, we'd haggle for a while and
figure out for ourselves what eggs and cheese should be worth -- although
that somewhat sidesteps the need for standardized units altogether. Of
course, that one guy who only has stuff that absolutely nobody wants, kinda
gets into a bit of trouble in a barter economy... the conceptual system is
not without its flaws. But, hey, that's true of everything out there, so...
I dunno. /shrug
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-09-22 02:08:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 3:02 AM, Christopher Havel
Post by Christopher Havel
Forgive me chiming in with an admittedly esoteric viewpoint... but...
What if "money" was a system of measurement, without intrinsic value...?
What I'm envisioning is a barter economy,
i would hazard a guess that that would work well in closely-knit
small communities (and probably does).

l.

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Richard Wilbur
2018-09-22 03:04:37 UTC
Permalink
[…]
Interesting economic scenario. I think it works best when the arbiter of the exchange rate for goods is impartial. Otherwise the exchange rate would be influenced by biases.
if I've got my math right (sorry, I'm severely math-challenged -- to the level of
having some sort of otherwise-unnamed "math fluency disorder" that I was
labeled with in grade school... the gist is that I understand the
*concepts* on actually something of a slightly advanced level, but I can't
manage the actual *exercises*, real-world or textbook, without a
half-decent calculator).
In this case, the arithmetic associated with your example seems to work out fine. Maybe you've outgrown the "math fluency disorder"? In my recollection it seems boys' brains mature later and I know there can be significant individual variation in the timing.
Alternatively, in a less-regulated society, we'd haggle for a while and
figure out for ourselves what eggs and cheese should be worth -- although
that somewhat sidesteps the need for standardized units altogether.
This avoids the bias of a government official--exchanging that for the biases of each potential customer.
Of course, that one guy who only has stuff that absolutely nobody wants, kinda
gets into a bit of trouble in a barter economy... the conceptual system is
not without its flaws. But, hey, that's true of everything out there, so...
I dunno. /shrug
That guy goes bankrupt if he doesn't adapt to the market demand in capitalism.

Sincerely,
Richard
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2018-09-22 03:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Wilbur
[…]
Interesting economic scenario. I think it works best when the arbiter of
the exchange rate for goods is impartial. Otherwise the exchange rate
would be influenced by biases.
This is where blockchain on a global scale helps at a local one (if adopted
properly) as the maths of PKI is inviolate and now well known if only
indirectly.

It is the first time in human history where third party arbitration may be
replaced with inviolate mathenatics.

An individual selling at a biased rate will have that unfair exchange
recorded forever. If all sellers refuse to use anything other than that
mechanism, no unfair exhange can take place.

So the trick is, to identify those locations and communities who are being
taken advantage of and offer them something inviolate. Westerners have not
had to live the same kind of hell described in Professor Yunus book, so the
innovation for real economic change is unlikely to sprout there.
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Jean Flamelle
2018-09-22 15:40:46 UTC
Permalink
@Christopher, I would describe my issue with that interpretation as follows

One doesn't transfer meters between traders.
One can't transfer a measurement.

Also, a measurement doesn't require difficulty by nature.
We can always pull tape further, however, if one doesn't have enough
money to count to a large enough number, acquiring more money requires
non-trivial difficulty.

Also, as far as we know distance has no limit.
Any money counted, represents a fraction of all money in circulation
with a calculable maximum.

I return to my contention that money merely acts as a sybil certificate.
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John Luke Gibson
2017-01-28 21:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Parobalth
The idea about a dot in the "O" of EOMA made me think of fonts where the
dot is in the 0 (zero) to distinguish it from O (capital letter O) As we
all are somehow computer related I would find such a design confusing.
If it was really to be in honor of the modularity and progress of
blender, one would want to make the "O" not really in any particular
font, but to look exactly the shape blender logo, except without the
flay or the color scheme: a perfect solid-color circle within another
perfect circle. It wouldn't theoretically be confusing because the
mark you are thinking of is a hollow circle in an oval. Letter-o'es
and zeroes can only sometimes be confusing because in some fonts they
are both written as vertical ovals, not just the zero.

I'm not sure on the required dimensions of a certification mark,
however, the solid-shape flag-esque convention I've noticed among
popular one's, often seems to detract from the continuity of the
design on the objects that bear them, making them seem particularly
foreign and like they don't belong. The vaporwave-esque color palate
which most of them choose only add to this affect, as if they
themselves are trying to distance themselves on some subconscious
level from their endorsements.

As a side effect to this, it makes them harder to trust. Any symbolism
of any significant body, displays historical awareness.. It's what
tells people whether they can trust it, before reading or attempting
to judge it. Therein lies the axiom, there is no such thing as an
original thought, so, if by means of arbitrary work dedicated to make
more concise and thoroughly plastered an announcement of what
historical or cultural event may have inspired such thoughts and such
work, people will then engage in the arbitrarily difficult work of
judging whether the project is sincere or not.

In other words, if we don't display more than necessary effort in our
symbol that can be recognized with several magnitudes less effort than
it took to generate, then no highly-self-valuing person will have any
sane reason to take us seriously, because if they took every slightly
promising project, which failed to create a Sybil-certificate
reputation in this manner, then they would never find a single
valuable project in their lifetime (obviously this is an
exaggeration).

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Parobalth
2017-01-28 22:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Luke Gibson
If it was really to be in honor of the modularity and progress of
blender, one would want to make the "O" not really in any particular
font, but to look exactly the shape blender logo, except without the
flay or the color scheme: a perfect solid-color circle within another
perfect circle. It wouldn't theoretically be confusing because the
mark you are thinking of is a hollow circle in an oval. Letter-o'es
and zeroes can only sometimes be confusing because in some fonts they
are both written as vertical ovals, not just the zero.
Thank you for clarification on that point. Now I am understanding better what you
had in mind and agree that a dot in a perfect circle would not create
the mentioned ambiguity.

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Jean Flamelle
2018-09-21 13:33:04 UTC
Permalink
I made a concept logo a while back for EOMA, which had an E in
cloister black font to reference L. Lawliet (a symbol for Justice as
well as a detective with worldwide logistics as well as a keen eye for
anonymity and security), an O made by merging elements from the
blender logo with the eye in lulsec's troll face, an M relatively
undecided however temporarily borrowing the M from a microsoft logo,
and an A in courier font (the first public domain font I know about).
All wrapped inside a hollowed out version of Fisheye Placebo's comic
logo, which symbolized transparency/surveillance by reference to a
fisheye lens (further symbolically I placed the lulsec blender merged
O where the pupil would appear).

Shortly afterwards, I discovered that the uniforms in "the Melancholy
of Haruhi Suzumiya" all bare a mysterious m on the chest resembling
L's cloister black font.

The school has no official name I know about, so I believe the M
intended irony with story's name. Melancholy over dissatisfaction with
society having uninteresting aesthetics as well as individuals having
slow personal development appear like the two greatest most persistent
themes. The series plays with reshaping the world anew by destroying
and rebuilding, as well as how aesthetics end up created by those who
desire them often without their noticing. The story makes oblique
commentary on these themes heavily disjointing the what with the how,
by making the how always magic.

I find that, oddly appropriate for libre hardware.
Being a movement about ethics, I find aesthetics sits just behind our backs.
We desire ethics we don't notice, thereby creating those ethics with
our passion to DO as well as to complain and almost never worry about
getting copied.

L's logistics embedded L in the world.
Blender and Lulsec idealized openness to help from anyone.
Haruhi wanted a complex modular world.
Courier symbolizes a computer's role as a transport mechanism for ideas.

I imagined whatever number could also type in Courier.
I wanted to know if anyone re-thought this idea at all, as well as
feedback on the new thought about the M. Je ne sais pas quoi ~ Thank
you, in advance.
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James L
2017-01-29 02:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Here is my attempt at a KISS logo for EOMA68 (easily
adapted for other standards):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N03/32579869145

If you want me to post it somewhere else (or you want
the sources), you got to point me where to upload it.

License: Whatever lkcl wants (otherwise cc-sa-by-4.0)

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Alain Williams
2017-01-29 09:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by James L
Here is my attempt at a KISS logo for EOMA68 (easily
If you want me to post it somewhere else (or you want
the sources), you got to point me where to upload it.
License: Whatever lkcl wants (otherwise cc-sa-by-4.0)
Looks good.

Could I ask you to produce variants of this:

1) without colour

2) low resolution/small size

3) (1) & (2)

The reason is that a logo is going to be used in many places and still has to be
robustly recognisable. So all candidate logos should be 'tested' by checking how
they look when mangled as above.

Regards
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James L
2017-01-29 23:19:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alain Williams
Looks good.
1) without colour
2) low resolution/small size
3) (1) & (2)
The reason is that a logo is going to be used in many places and still has to be
robustly recognisable. So all candidate logos should be 'tested' by checking how
they look when mangled as above.
Regards
Licenses: Same as before (Whatever lkcl wants, otherwise cc-sa-by-4.0)

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Allan Mwenda
2017-01-30 05:49:03 UTC
Permalink
I don't like it, I dunno. It's bland.
Post by Alain Williams
Post by Alain Williams
Looks good.
1) without colour
2) low resolution/small size
3) (1) & (2)
The reason is that a logo is going to be used in many places and
still has to be
Post by Alain Williams
robustly recognisable. So all candidate logos should be 'tested' by
checking how
Post by Alain Williams
they look when mangled as above.
Regards
Licenses: Same as before (Whatever lkcl wants, otherwise cc-sa-by-4.0)
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Julie Marchant
2017-01-30 06:55:49 UTC
Permalink
I liked the one with a card sliding into a weirdly shaped blue circle.
I'd say take that, smooth things out a bit, and make the visual look
more definitively like something the card is being slotted into by
hiding the right side of the card behind the blue thing. Kind of random,
but really, who cares? What matters is if it looks cool.

Another thought is that the card could be a silvery color, with the blue
circle thing having green continents with blue oceans (decorated like
the Earth), rather than making the card green. Kind of symbolizing
connecting your computing to mother Earth, or some such thing.

For monochrome, you could just convert all the edges between colors into
outlines.
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Alain Williams
2017-01-30 10:25:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julie Marchant
For monochrome, you could just convert all the edges between colors into
outlines.
Unfortunately that is not good enough ... you are assuming that people will use
the monchrome version of the logo rather than just photocopying the colour one
on a monochrome copyier.

I used the word 'abuse' - because that is what will happen.
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Julie Marchant
2017-01-30 13:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alain Williams
Unfortunately that is not good enough ... you are assuming that people will use
the monchrome version of the logo rather than just photocopying the colour one
on a monochrome copyier.
You can easily prevent that with a trademark policy... and why would
someone choose to make their own half-baked monochrome conversion when a
proper one is available?
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Paul Boddie
2017-01-30 13:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julie Marchant
Post by Alain Williams
Unfortunately that is not good enough ... you are assuming that people
will use the monchrome version of the logo rather than just photocopying
the colour one on a monochrome copyier.
You can easily prevent that with a trademark policy... and why would
someone choose to make their own half-baked monochrome conversion when a
proper one is available?
People are lazy. Have you never seen anyone copy-paste the first image they
found on the Internet into a Word document and then send it around?

People even manage to do this for materials they have full access to, as in
there will be a bunch of properly-done logos all made ready (at great expense)
on some shared disk or intranet site, and yet someone will still just take the
shortcut of grabbing the nearest low resolution bitmap from Google, drag at
the corners of it in their Word document, and then, "What do you mean by the
vector/big/small/monochrome/greyscale version?"

At a former employer, the work done on the logo to specify the colours and
profiles was possibly some of the best work I saw done at that company. Shame
the logo wasn't very good, though.

Paul

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Tor, the Marqueteur
2017-01-30 13:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julie Marchant
Post by Alain Williams
Unfortunately that is not good enough ... you are assuming that people will use
the monchrome version of the logo rather than just photocopying the colour one
on a monochrome copyier.
You can easily prevent that with a trademark policy... and why would
someone choose to make their own half-baked monochrome conversion when a
proper one is available?
Yes, and no. For real publicity, they shouldn't, and the trademark
policy should solve the remaining issues. The problem is that there are
a /lot/ of BW printers and xeroxes out there still, and documents with
the colour logo /will/ get printed on them and passed around.

The colour logo should therefore be recognizable when printed in
monochrome. Beautiful would be ideal, but as long as it isn't horrible
to look at and makes sense, that will work.

Tor
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Alain Williams
2017-01-30 13:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julie Marchant
Post by Alain Williams
Unfortunately that is not good enough ... you are assuming that people will use
the monchrome version of the logo rather than just photocopying the colour one
on a monochrome copyier.
You can easily prevent that with a trademark policy... and why would
someone choose to make their own half-baked monochrome conversion when a
proper one is available?
Because they have a piece of paper about whatever and the logo happens to be on
there. Producing a new document is too much effort, they just photocopy it for
whatever purpose.

Many people just do the minimum to do what they have to, they won't care at all
about some logo of something that they might not even understand.
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Allan Mwenda
2017-01-30 16:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Gonna have to agree, logo should work in black and white
Post by Alain Williams
Post by Julie Marchant
Post by Alain Williams
Unfortunately that is not good enough ... you are assuming that
people will use
Post by Julie Marchant
Post by Alain Williams
the monchrome version of the logo rather than just photocopying the
colour one
Post by Julie Marchant
Post by Alain Williams
on a monochrome copyier.
You can easily prevent that with a trademark policy... and why would
someone choose to make their own half-baked monochrome conversion
when a
Post by Julie Marchant
proper one is available?
Because they have a piece of paper about whatever and the logo happens to be on
there. Producing a new document is too much effort, they just photocopy it for
whatever purpose.
Many people just do the minimum to do what they have to, they won't care at all
about some logo of something that they might not even understand.
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Julie Marchant
2017-01-30 16:44:03 UTC
Permalink
I seem to have misunderstood. I thought Alain was asking for a
monochrome variant to be designed for people who want to use that (e.g.
if it's easier to print monochrome on a computer card than color), but
looking more closely, I can see that he just wanted to see what the
proposed logo looked like when you took the color away.

I don't think what I suggested would have any problem; just make the
"continents" dark green and make the "ocean" light blue, possibly with
black outlines to define the separation better.
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