[Arm-netbook] Conflict-free minerals

[Jean Flamelle]

I just thought I'd make a poke about this.

Been a bit busy lately to contribute to the liberating chip or the
standards thread, but will be getting back on those soon.

No one has really mentioned conflict-free minerals, or does so often
in the libre community.
It's kinda like adding just one other complication to an already
mess-y problem, but I'm interested to know more about the details and
problems involved with paying attention to the actual mineral
sourcing.

I can imagine many OEM's don't publish or even pay attention to where
they get minerals from, so I imagine the potential parts list dwindles
beyond reason at simply limiting one's self to OEM's that at least
list their mineral sources, much less then actually trying to them
limit it based on the fairly subjective "conflict-free" qualification.

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by Jean Flamelle
I just thought I'd make a poke about this.

good idea.

Post by Jean Flamelle
Been a bit busy lately to contribute to the liberating chip or the
standards thread, but will be getting back on those soon.

great. knock yourself out :)

Post by Jean Flamelle
No one has really mentioned conflict-free minerals, or does so often
in the libre community.
It's kinda like adding just one other complication to an already
mess-y problem, but I'm interested to know more about the details and
problems involved with paying attention to the actual mineral
sourcing.

correct. libre means software... which is another area of highly
specialist ethical expertise (the application of ethics to software).

conflict minerals is the application of specialist ethical expertise
to the sourcing of materials.

Post by Jean Flamelle
I can imagine many OEM's don't publish or even pay attention to where
they get minerals from, so I imagine the potential parts list dwindles
beyond reason at simply limiting one's self to OEM's that at least
list their mineral sources, much less then actually trying to them
limit it based on the fairly subjective "conflict-free" qualification.

fairphones does.... but they then screwed up by not bothering with
the ethical issues of ensuring that the operating system was
actually... legal to distribute. so all the Fairphone 1 products
they designed are basically a ticking landfill timebomb.... ENTIRELY
DEFEATING the whole fucking point of the exercise.

they still have not resolved the use of the GPL-violating Mediatek OS
distributed with that phone, meaning that they have LOST ALL RIGHTS TO
DISTRIBUTE PRODUCT - including the Fairphone 2 and all future
products.

the way that they can fix that is to ask every single contributor to
u-boot and the linux kernel for their distribution rights back, but
first obtain the full GPLv2 source to that Mediatek OS.

alcatel did this (alcatel is one of the main sources of mediatek
GPLv2 compliant source code).

Fairphones did not.


so.

what do you think of that, jean? should we go out and buy Fairphone products?

l.

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[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Jean Flamelle
I can imagine many OEM's don't publish or even pay attention to where
they get minerals from, so I imagine the potential parts list dwindles
beyond reason at simply limiting one's self to OEM's that at least
list their mineral sources, much less then actually trying to them
limit it based on the fairly subjective "conflict-free" qualification.

fairphones does.... but they then screwed up by not bothering with
the ethical issues of ensuring that the operating system was
actually... legal to distribute. so all the Fairphone 1 products
they designed are basically a ticking landfill timebomb.... ENTIRELY
DEFEATING the whole fucking point of the exercise.
they still have not resolved the use of the GPL-violating Mediatek OS
distributed with that phone, meaning that they have LOST ALL RIGHTS TO
DISTRIBUTE PRODUCT - including the Fairphone 2 and all future
products.

True and the FP1 has been officially been discontinued from support.
FP2 is a Qualcomm device.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
the way that they can fix that is to ask every single contributor to
u-boot and the linux kernel for their distribution rights back, but
first obtain the full GPLv2 source to that Mediatek OS.
alcatel did this (alcatel is one of the main sources of mediatek
GPLv2 compliant source code).
Fairphones did not.

They've tried to do better with FP2. But still they did not fully
grasp the implications.

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
so.
what do you think of that, jean? should we go out and buy Fairphone products?

Well, They've focused on one side of the equation, upstream. We've
focused on the to other, downstream.

So in the end we need both approaches.

At least they've raised some awareness and show the world that a
viable business can be founded with focus on ethical hardware
resources.

The software part remained as shitty as the rest. Let us show the
world that can be done as well!

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Se

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
they still have not resolved the use of the GPL-violating Mediatek OS
distributed with that phone, meaning that they have LOST ALL RIGHTS TO
DISTRIBUTE PRODUCT - including the Fairphone 2 and all future
products.

True and the FP1 has been officially been discontinued from support.
FP2 is a Qualcomm device.

ceasing sale of one criminally-infringing product does not grant the
right to sell another. once rights are lost they may NOT be
re-established without the consent of ALL copyright parties.

thus sadly they no longer have the right to distribute the FP2. or
future products. if they continue to do so they will be operating as
an illegal criminal cartel (an Organised Crime Syndicate) *not* a
Cooperative.

they can fix that by obtaining that Mediatek source code.

l.

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[d***@mail.com]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:15:26 +0100

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
thus sadly they no longer have the right to distribute the FP2. or
future products. if they continue to do so they will be operating as
an illegal criminal cartel (an Organised Crime Syndicate) *not* a
Cooperative.

Does this refer to their "US Legal rights" to distribute their products
or that we should not give them the right to distribute their products to
us by virtue of a purchase?

Thanks,
David

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

Post by d***@mail.com
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:15:26 +0100

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
thus sadly they no longer have the right to distribute the FP2. or
future products. if they continue to do so they will be operating as
an illegal criminal cartel (an Organised Crime Syndicate) *not* a
Cooperative.

Does this refer to their "US Legal rights" to distribute their products
or that we should not give them the right to distribute their products to
us by virtue of a purchase?

it's copyright law, plain and simple. if you violate the GPLv2 you
lose all distribution rights. if you then *continue* to distribute
without those rights, you are in criminal infringement of copyright
law. if a *company* continues to do that, the company is breaking the
law. if a company is breaking the law, it is no longer a company, it
is a criminal cartel. it's a simple chain. many people have pointed
out however a flaw in this logic, that copyright is a civil offense
not a criminal offense.

l.

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[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
many people have pointed
out however a flaw in this logic, that copyright is a civil offense
not a criminal offense.

Actually I’m not so sure depending on the jurisdiction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Copyright_Law_in_the_United_States

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[m***@gmail.com]

2017-09-17 19:47 GMT+02:00 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)

Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
many people have pointed
out however a flaw in this logic, that copyright is a civil offense
not a criminal offense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Copyright_Law_in_the_United_States

It depends on the location. Copyright is not an international law.

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[zap]

Post by m***@gmail.com
It depends on the location. Copyright is not an international law.
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Thank god its not an international law, its bad enough we have copyright
in any part of the world...

I just think 30 years is more than enough for a copyright to last matter
of fact, 15 years for software and 30 for books, is more than sufficient.

Given how quickly things become obsolete regarding software...


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