[Arm-netbook] 12th update

[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

I had missed the laptop comparison in crowdsupply.com.

I guess it is too late to change anything, but anyway, just in case
someone thinks the links are relevant:

On planned obsolescence:
" The possibility of a manufacturer actually deciding to SHUT DOWN such laptops is not unthinkable. "

Other kind of computers (Revolv home automation) have already been shut down
( I think, all news I have are from one month before the deadline)

http://boingboing.net/2016/04/05/google-reaches-into-customers.html

Summary: Google (or Alphabet) buys Nest. Nest buys competitor Revolv.
They announce they will OTA-brick all of 300$-a-piece Revolv home
automation hubs in May 2015. Customers are left to buy something else
(if they aren't already fed up).


Curious that you left out GTA04, neo900, Pyra. And the refurbished RYF
laptops, which are (software) efforts to recycle old standard laptops
with libreboot, and so have some FS and eco conciousness to them (by the way
the Acer 201P hints that the Rockchip 3288 SOC might be usable in a
future CPU card ?
https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html
if power allows
http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/02/17/power-consumption-of-amlogic-s812-and-rockchip-rk3288-tv-boxes/
- not that Rockchip is a good company, from what I hear about GPL violations -
anyway fixing the boot with JZ4775 cpu card maybe is more prioritary than
designing new CPU cards).

But I learned about a lot of projects I didn't know. Thank you.
I also didn't know Tegra laptops were locked down. I though there was
The Jetson TK1 board that people used with 100% free software

http://embedded-computing.com/news/engineers-just-hours-get-new-nvidia-jetson-tk1/

But then Debian says it needs two blobs (firmware for graphics and USB
xHCI, I don't know how usable it is without these)

https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/NVIDIA/Jetson-TK1

I hoped some Tegra K1 laptop could be eventually liberated (K1 chromebooks
have coreboot, no libreboot yet, and your update hints at they have
already been found unliberable because of DRM in the laptops?).


Btw, sorry for the trivia and mixing topics, but are there images
available of the different colours offered for the EOMA68 laptop
housing ?


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[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Summary: Google (or Alphabet) buys Nest. Nest buys competitor Revolv.
They announce they will OTA-brick all of 300$-a-piece Revolv home
automation hubs in May 2015. Customers are left to buy something else
(if they aren't already fed up).

Sorry, that was may 2016

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
I had missed the laptop comparison in crowdsupply.com.
I guess it is too late to change anything, but anyway, just in case
" The possibility of a manufacturer actually deciding to SHUT DOWN such laptops is not unthinkable. "
Other kind of computers (Revolv home automation) have already been shut down
( I think, all news I have are from one month before the deadline)
http://boingboing.net/2016/04/05/google-reaches-into-customers.html
Summary: Google (or Alphabet) buys Nest. Nest buys competitor Revolv.
They announce they will OTA-brick all of 300$-a-piece Revolv home
automation hubs in May 2015. Customers are left to buy something else
(if they aren't already fed up).

waaaa i knew there was something like that, i couldn't remember it:
thank you. i'll ask joshua to add that.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Curious that you left out GTA04, neo900,

... not laptops ....

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Pyra.

pyra's the upgraded version of the openpandora.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
And the refurbished RYF
laptops, which are (software) efforts to recycle old standard laptops
with libreboot, and so have some FS and eco conciousness to them

if you bear in mind that cost equates directly with the environmental
impact, then add up an estimate of the amount of time and money and
resources spent on reverse-engineering vs the results gained in doing
so, sadly i think you'll find that recycling old standard laptops is
not as effective as we'd like to think it could be.

the fact that we're "on the clock" the moment the hardware hits the
shelves - bear in mind that the processor will have been out for
months before that whilst the hardware manufacturer is designing a
boardd around it - means that you're onto a losing game right from the
moment you buy it.

*over three years* to reverse-engineer the HTC Universal's hardware.
*three years*!

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
(by the way
the Acer 201P hints that the Rockchip 3288 SOC might be usable in a
future CPU card ?

except i understand the RK3288 has a proprietary bootloader...

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html

... maybe not! that's a good sign.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
if power allows
http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/02/17/power-consumption-of-amlogic-s812-and-rockchip-rk3288-tv-boxes/

datasheet says it's 6 watts.... it would be possible then to run it
at 50% speed or run 2 cores at 100% and the others at much-reduced
speed.... you'd also have to only use one of the 32-bit DDR3L
interfaces otherwise you'd be looking at 1 to 2 watts just for memory.
DDR3 800mhz @ 32 bit uses something like 0.3 to 0.4 watts. DDR3L is a
drop from 1.5 to 1.2 volts (square law reduction) but by the time you
ramp up to 1333mhz (again, square law) you're looking at a looot of
power.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
- not that Rockchip is a good company, from what I hear about GPL violations -
anyway fixing the boot with JZ4775 cpu card maybe is more prioritary than
designing new CPU cards).
But I learned about a lot of projects I didn't know. Thank you.
I also didn't know Tegra laptops were locked down. I though there was
The Jetson TK1 board that people used with 100% free software

yeah... it's more that the feature's there, so manufacturers use it.
the Surface RT is a good example, and the app store for Microsoft is
being shut down in a couple of years.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
http://embedded-computing.com/news/engineers-just-hours-get-new-nvidia-jetson-tk1/
But then Debian says it needs two blobs (firmware for graphics and USB
xHCI, I don't know how usable it is without these)
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/NVIDIA/Jetson-TK1
I hoped some Tegra K1 laptop could be eventually liberated (K1 chromebooks
have coreboot, no libreboot yet, and your update hints at they have
already been found unliberable because of DRM in the laptops?).

the feature's there - like in the exynos SoCs it's a matter of
whether it's enabled (as hardkernel do).

now you _could_ do your own board (and not flip the DRM-locking bit)
but i've tried contacting NVIDIA.... no response. and the power
requirements are bananas, anyway.

Post by Xavi Drudis Ferran
Btw, sorry for the trivia and mixing topics, but are there images
available of the different colours offered for the EOMA68 laptop
housing ?

i've got two made up, the purple-green you see in the news page, and
then there's the silver one. i'll need to re-assemble my portable 3d
printer to do any more.
https://www.youmagine.com/designs/libre-hardware-licensed-parametric-laptop-design
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/

also hopefully the people who are doing their PIY laptop casings, i
asked crowd supply (respecting their privacy policy) to reach out on
my behalf and ask them if they'd like to contact me and begin the 3D
printing early.

l.

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[Elena ``of Valhalla'']

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Pyra.

pyra's the upgraded version of the openpandora.

and?

featurewise it's not very far from being a viable low-power laptop.

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Elena ``of Valhalla''

Post by Elena ``of Valhalla''

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Pyra.

pyra's the upgraded version of the openpandora.

and?
featurewise it's not very far from being a viable low-power laptop.

... ok, let me think it through.... i was originally thinking it was
basically from the same team as the openpandora, so wasn't any
different in that regard (being an illustration of the principle of
open hardware with an active community base). but (a) as you say it's
an updated version in its own right - and a viable low-power laptop
but (b) we just had a huge discussion on their forum, it would only be
fair to give them a mention and increase publicity and awareness for
them.

yep, ok, convinced: i'll write something, thanks elena.

l.

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[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Elena ``of Valhalla''

Post by Elena ``of Valhalla''

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Pyra.

pyra's the upgraded version of the openpandora.

and?
featurewise it's not very far from being a viable low-power laptop.

... ok, let me think it through.... i was originally thinking it was
basically from the same team as the openpandora, so wasn't any
different in that regard (being an illustration of the principle of
open hardware with an active community base). but (a) as you say it's
an updated version in its own right - and a viable low-power laptop
but (b) we just had a huge discussion on their forum, it would only be
fair to give them a mention and increase publicity and awareness for
them.
yep, ok, convinced: i'll write something, thanks elena.

i added this, it's live:

Update 18 July 2016: Several people have kindly pointed out that the
Pyra Handheld games console is an update of Open Pandora, which is
great to see as it means that this community has clearly reached
critical mass with a sustainable business model. The only other type
of open hardware project to achieve this is the Arduino series, which
has a far lower technical threshold (and price point). For this
community-driven handheld gaming community to reach self-sustaining
financial status with such a high technical barrier is a huge call for
celebration.

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