Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] fsf-endorseable ingenic jz4775 cpu card can go ahead
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-10 16:36:17 UTC
Permalink
good news: after being very patient and persistent, my contact at
ingenic put me in touch with a support engineer who confirmed that the
limitation on the jz4775's reported maximum resolution (1280x720) is
for the *video decoder* not the actual LCD output capabilities. the
actual LCD output may go as high as something like 1700x1700 (not at
60fps obviously) but that things like 1280x800 @ 60hz (the crucial
limit of the eoma68 spec) are fine, as is even ***@60hz.

however he did kindly point out that if 720p video decoding [for which
the full source is apparently available, which is also great] is
attempted to be displayed on a 1366x768 LCD (or greater), there is a
bandwidth memory limitation between the video decoder and the lcd
buffer which would prooobably end up stalling slightly so that 30fps
would be hard to achieve, at full-screen.

honestly, i really don't see this as being a huge show-stopper enough
to warrant exclusion of a low-cost SoC that could be the first
FSF-Endorseable candidate to run GNU/Linux OSes with a decent amount
of RAM (2Gbytes).

as i've had the first revision PCB done nearly 4 months ago, that just
leaves financing of the first revision jz4775 CPU Card to arrange. i
have one potential sponsor: if anyone else would like to help out that
would be great. we're likely looking at around $USD 1,500 for 5 PCBs.

l.

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Paul Boddie
2015-03-10 17:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
good news: after being very patient and persistent, my contact at
ingenic put me in touch with a support engineer who confirmed that the
limitation on the jz4775's reported maximum resolution (1280x720) is
for the *video decoder* not the actual LCD output capabilities. the
actual LCD output may go as high as something like 1700x1700 (not at
So it's the VPU that only supports 720p, rather than an actual video output
limit of 720 lines. I suppose that's what they're trying to say on the
following page:

http://www.smartqzwatch.co.uk/specifications/ingenic-jz4775-application-
processor

Some day, even smartwatches will need more than 720p video playback for those
who are bothered by that kind of thing. ;-)
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
however he did kindly point out that if 720p video decoding [for which
the full source is apparently available, which is also great] is
attempted to be displayed on a 1366x768 LCD (or greater), there is a
bandwidth memory limitation between the video decoder and the lcd
buffer which would prooobably end up stalling slightly so that 30fps
would be hard to achieve, at full-screen.
honestly, i really don't see this as being a huge show-stopper enough
to warrant exclusion of a low-cost SoC that could be the first
FSF-Endorseable candidate to run GNU/Linux OSes with a decent amount
of RAM (2Gbytes).
I'd certainly be interested, and I would imagine that it would be a good
alternative to the various non-open-hardware boards that have been emerging
recently for the MIPS platform, as well as a solid alternative to certain
popular ARM-based single-board computers.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
as i've had the first revision PCB done nearly 4 months ago, that just
leaves financing of the first revision jz4775 CPU Card to arrange. i
have one potential sponsor: if anyone else would like to help out that
would be great. we're likely looking at around $USD 1,500 for 5 PCBs.
I don't think I'd be aiming to be a sponsor as such, not being an organisation
that would get involved because they see the commercial value in what you're
doing, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing this card come to fruition,
as indeed I am about the microdesktop and other things getting made.

Actually, with regard to the crowd-funding effort, was it going to include the
IC1T board as well as the A20 board, and would the jz4775 board also join the
crowd-funding line-up if successfully produced as a first revision?

Paul

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-10 17:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Boddie
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
good news: after being very patient and persistent, my contact at
ingenic put me in touch with a support engineer who confirmed that the
limitation on the jz4775's reported maximum resolution (1280x720) is
for the *video decoder* not the actual LCD output capabilities. the
actual LCD output may go as high as something like 1700x1700 (not at
So it's the VPU that only supports 720p, rather than an actual video output
limit of 720 lines. I suppose that's what they're trying to say on the
http://www.smartqzwatch.co.uk/specifications/ingenic-jz4775-application-
processor
in a way, yeah. what they don't say there is that the video decode
engine source is fully available, and they also don't mention that
flat-out the jz4775 i think uses only a maximum of 250mW which is
awesome.
Post by Paul Boddie
Some day, even smartwatches will need more than 720p video playback for those
who are bothered by that kind of thing. ;-)
:)
Post by Paul Boddie
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
honestly, i really don't see this as being a huge show-stopper enough
to warrant exclusion of a low-cost SoC that could be the first
FSF-Endorseable candidate to run GNU/Linux OSes with a decent amount
of RAM (2Gbytes).
I'd certainly be interested, and I would imagine that it would be a good
alternative to the various non-open-hardware boards that have been emerging
recently for the MIPS platform, as well as a solid alternative to certain
popular ARM-based single-board computers.
that's the idea. i'm kinda fed up with there being no
even-25%-way-decent options at a reasonable price. sure you can get
OMAP3 or AM Sitara SoCs but the only FSF-Endorseable ones come
completely devoid of anything remotely useful for GPU or VPU
acceleration.
Post by Paul Boddie
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
as i've had the first revision PCB done nearly 4 months ago, that just
leaves financing of the first revision jz4775 CPU Card to arrange. i
have one potential sponsor: if anyone else would like to help out that
would be great. we're likely looking at around $USD 1,500 for 5 PCBs.
I don't think I'd be aiming to be a sponsor as such, not being an organisation
that would get involved because they see the commercial value in what you're
doing, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing this card come to fruition,
as indeed I am about the microdesktop and other things getting made.
me too, damnit! :) on that score we finally heard from the contract
manufacturer, they aim to focus on getting the quotes.
Post by Paul Boddie
Actually, with regard to the crowd-funding effort, was it going to include the
IC1T board as well as the A20 board, and would the jz4775 board also join the
crowd-funding line-up if successfully produced as a first revision?
YES. although it would be necessary to move sharp-ish. even if the
1st revision didn't work i'd really really still like to try to get it
in, as the IC1T board only really supports android (cross-compiled) -
the jz4775 actually stands a chance of being self-hosting (native
debian packages and compiler).

l.

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-10 23:32:36 UTC
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ok so already we have three offers of sponsorship and offers to help
with OSes and board bring-up and so on for the jz4775 card. i'll
confirm with my contact what the pricing is for 5 assembled units, and
also verify with ingenic that the kernel source and u-boot source is
available.

l.

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-10 23:56:39 UTC
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On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ok so already we have three offers of sponsorship and offers to help
with OSes and board bring-up and so on for the jz4775 card. i'll
confirm with my contact what the pricing is for 5 assembled units, and
also verify with ingenic that the kernel source and u-boot source is
available.
found u-boot:
ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/

however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline.
still searching...

l.

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Henrik Nordström
2015-03-11 01:40:13 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline.
still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this
https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux

It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.

And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and
u-boot at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6
(both git accessible only).

But i am starting to get allergic to vendors that don't attempt
mainlining and who stay on some ancient versions of u-boot & kernel..

Regards
Henrik


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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-11 08:50:29 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Henrik Nordström
Post by Henrik Nordström
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline.
still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this
https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
ehh... the differences are where all the work is :) will have to ask them.
Post by Henrik Nordström
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and
u-boot at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6
(both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed
in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
Post by Henrik Nordström
But i am starting to get allergic to vendors that don't attempt
mainlining and who stay on some ancient versions of u-boot & kernel..
:)

well, they don't all have the knowledge and experience of the larger
vendors (the ones that typically pay linaro), and in this case they're
literally the only decent FSF-Endorseable half-way decent processor
around, so am prepared to give them a bit of slack.

l.

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Se
Philip Hands
2015-03-11 10:15:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Henrik Nordström
Post by Henrik Nordström
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline.
still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this
https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
ehh... the differences are where all the work is :) will have to ask them.
Post by Henrik Nordström
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and
u-boot at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6
(both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed
in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
Hi Luke,

I just cloned the uboot onto free for you:

free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/

The kernel source was giving a 502 -- probably worth trying again.

Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.

Cheers, Phil.
--
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-11 10:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Hands
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Henrik Nordström
Post by Henrik Nordström
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline.
still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this
https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
ehh... the differences are where all the work is :) will have to ask them.
Post by Henrik Nordström
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and
u-boot at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6
(both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed
in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
Hi Luke,
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
The kernel source was giving a 502 -- probably worth trying again.
ah brilliant - thank you!
Post by Philip Hands
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
ok.
Post by Philip Hands
Cheers, Phil.
--
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-11 10:57:11 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Philip Hands
Hi Luke,
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
got it.

have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.

l.

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Philip Hands
2015-03-11 13:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Philip Hands
Hi Luke,
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
got it.
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
I just managed to grab the kernel as well -- it's in the same place.

Cheers, Phil.
--
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-11 14:24:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Hands
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Philip Hands
Hi Luke,
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
got it.
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
I just managed to grab the kernel as well -- it's in the same place.
brilliant! ok that's a great result, am just pulling that over now.

l.

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Henrik Nordström
2015-03-12 06:04:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
It is GIT repositories, not web pages. You are not supposed to browse
there. The 404 is normal.

Regards
Henrik


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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-12 11:18:23 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Henrik Nordström
Post by Henrik Nordström
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
It is GIT repositories, not web pages. You are not supposed to browse
there. The 404 is normal.
ohh, ok. thanks

l.

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Henrik Nordström
2015-03-12 06:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Henrik Nordström
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and
u-boot at
http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6
(both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed
in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
You need to git clone them. It is not web pages.

Regards
henrik


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