Discussion:
[Arm-netbook] laptop 15in pcb1 progress
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-09-27 15:05:37 UTC
Permalink
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/

CM108AH, and Power ICs, all functional.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-09-28 20:35:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/
CM108AH, and Power ICs, all functional.
found a spare GL850G and a SY6280 from other boards, have put those
on. the GL850G works (yippee!) i will test the SY6280 USB-power
protection IC tomorrow.

last pieces (still on order) are the LCD 40-pin connector and a
single diode i missed out, then this PCB is done. on to the embedded
controller board and the power / battery board after that.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netb
joem
2015-09-29 07:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/
CM108AH, and Power ICs, all functional.
Hmm... use the force Luke! An SMT oven is cheap to buy these days..
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-962-Reflow-Oven-Infrared-IC-Heater-Soldering-Machine-800W-180-x-235mm-T962-BGA-SMD/32297484903.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.2.s7Nond&ws_ab_test=201556_2,201527_2_71_72_73_74_75,201409_5

(You should buy some venting pipe from screwfix and vent the fumes out -
they are nasty.)

Solder paste is cheap from aliexpress.

Making stencils for PCBs to apply solder paste also relatively cheap
these days.


_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
S
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-09-29 09:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by joem
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/
CM108AH, and Power ICs, all functional.
Hmm... use the force Luke! An SMT oven is cheap to buy these days..
yes i got the T862A, the one with an 800W pre-heater and a 200W
overhead lamp, i can actually see what's going on, keep an eye on the
solder as it melts and poke things with a stick if necessary.
Post by joem
Making stencils for PCBs to apply solder paste also relatively cheap
these days.
yeah i saw that, eurocircuits can do them for $EUR 40 which is a hell
of a lot less than $700+ i've previously been quoted.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send l
Hrvoje Lasic
2015-09-29 09:47:07 UTC
Permalink
so, eurocircuits supply you PCB, you also make stencil with eurocircuits
and you mount all parts? is it hard to apply solder paste over stencil? did
you actually tried to use oven yet? looks like a good setup...


On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by joem
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/
CM108AH, and Power ICs, all functional.
Hmm... use the force Luke! An SMT oven is cheap to buy these days..
yes i got the T862A, the one with an 800W pre-heater and a 200W
overhead lamp, i can actually see what's going on, keep an eye on the
solder as it melts and poke things with a stick if necessary.
Post by joem
Making stencils for PCBs to apply solder paste also relatively cheap
these days.
yeah i saw that, eurocircuits can do them for $EUR 40 which is a hell
of a lot less than $700+ i've previously been quoted.
l.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-09-29 10:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hrvoje Lasic
so, eurocircuits supply you PCB,
yes.
Post by Hrvoje Lasic
you also make stencil with eurocircuits
not yet.
Post by Hrvoje Lasic
and you mount all parts?
yes, by hand... with tweezers and a ridiculous-looking head-mounted
magnifying glass :)
Post by Hrvoje Lasic
is it hard to apply solder paste over stencil?
from what i understand it's just "wipe with a sponge"! have a look
at the section "solder paste stencil" on this link:
http://www.factoryforall.com/pcba-fabrication
Post by Hrvoje Lasic
did you actually tried to use oven yet? looks like a good setup...
T862A yes - i'll do a video shortly of putting down one of the components.

joe, how did you get on with an IR oven?

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.
joem
2015-09-29 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
joe, how did you get on with an IR oven?
The first few attempts clog up everything.
Temperature settings too low or too much solder paste
everywhere. The solder paste solvents can evaporate
in storage, so mix it with some liquid solder flux to make it flow
(and don't breath the solder flux fumes coming out of the oven - take
the time to fit proper venting before starting up the oven).

Allow yourself the luxury of destroying 5 boards
with cheap chips and components to practice.

After that its regular as clockwork.
(Plenty videos on youtube.)
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large at
joem
2015-09-29 09:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
yes i got the T862A, the one with an 800W pre-heater and a 200W
overhead lamp, i can actually see what's going on, keep an eye on the
solder as it melts and poke things with a stick if necessary.
I don't dispute the benefits of a T862A, but get oven, destroy
a few boards until you got it timed to working 100%, and then its a
doddle to plant components, press go, and get working board with
near 100% reliability.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-net
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-09-29 09:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by joem
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
yes i got the T862A, the one with an 800W pre-heater and a 200W
overhead lamp, i can actually see what's going on, keep an eye on the
solder as it melts and poke things with a stick if necessary.
I don't dispute the benefits of a T862A, but get oven, destroy
a few boards until you got it timed to working 100%, and then its a
doddle to plant components, press go, and get working board with
near 100% reliability.
for this (first) board i need a slightly different approach, which
the T862A suits better. i need to go carefully and slowly, populating
only a few components at a time, testing them, inspecting the board,
making sure there's no short-circuits (some of the components are
0402), verifying that the circuit is functional by applying power, and
correcting it there and then if necessary.

if i were to populate the entire board with components, there would
be absolutely no way that i could test individual circuits or
components. in some places for example resistors don't measure their
actual value because of other components on the board.

i made one mistake by putting in the 3.3v regulator *and* the MOSFETs
for the LCD digital circuit. the 3.3v regulator circuit was fine, but
the LCD digital 3.3v supply circuit wasn't. so i dismantled pretty
much the entire 3.3v regulator circuit, had to cut PCB power line
tracks, and generally messed up the board, taking over 2 hours to
track down what was wrong.

if i had put down only the 3.3v regulator and then tested that, i
wouldn't have had to remove any of its components.

now multiply that scenario up for an entire board and it's easy to
work out why i'm doing this a bit at a time.

so i'm using the T862A as a PCB development tool, not a PCB
*production* tool. if i was doing small runs of PCB production, where
i was absolutely 100% confident that the circuit was proven, correct,
and functional, *then* yes absolutely i would get one of the T962
ovens.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachm
joem
2015-09-29 10:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
so i'm using the T862A as a PCB development tool
No. Nurse the oven as your tool. Its more safer and use as many times as
you want. (Some items such as LEDs won't survive re-use too many times -
but they are cheap to replace.)

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-09-29 11:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by joem
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
so i'm using the T862A as a PCB development tool
No. Nurse the oven as your tool.
remember, joe, you've done this a _lot_, so have much more confidence
in your abilities, as well as, from experience, a much higher
anticipated success rate. i had no idea what i was doing, so i needed
something which i could monitor closely and much quicker (like...
immediate), on a much smaller area.

so: i can't see inside the oven with the door closed, can i? that's
what i like about the one with the lamp: it focusses the IR on a small
area (about 5cm in diameter), i can get tweezers in underneath it and
remove components (or adjust their positions), i can watch the solder
actually melting, i can actually *see* the point when the components
flow into the solder, i can get solder in with a bit of solder paste
on the end to encourage the solder on the board to melt...

pluuuus, i can put only a tiny amount of solder paste down, which is
tolerable with the windows open.

you can't do _any_ of those things with an oven: it heats up the
entire board, it's an enclosed space, you have to heat up *all* the
components including all the ones that you previously placed, it takes
a long time to warm up and cool down...

so you *have* to do all the components (or risk re-heating all of
them). whereas i'm safely doing 5-10 components at a time, confident
that because the tested ones are in another area away from the lamp,
they won't get moved, overheated or (in the case of the TSSOP-56)
warped beyond useability.

when all the components i've put down are clearly visibly in full
solder-contact with the board, i can shut down the lamp immediately.
sometimes i've managed to get components soldered in about... 4 to 5
minutes. removing components (including SOT-23s and TSOP-8s) can be
as little as 3-4 minutes. can you do that with an oven? no.... you
can't see inside it, clearly, so you have to play it safe and let it
heat up on a full cycle, which is what... 10 to 15 minutes at a time?

you said it yourself: you destroyed several boards, first time you
used the oven. i only destroyed one, and it was the first test board
i'd ever done, it was only 1in x 0.5in in size (the fibreglass
actually delaminated). i learned from that, and haven't damaged the
laptop PCB at all. i've only destroyed around 3 components in total,
one was the TSSOP-56, it actually curled up at one end due to uneven
heat distribution and i wasn't watching the lamp's temperature sensor
closely enough. so i'm leaving its replacement until last.

now, the down-side is: it's taken 2-3 weeks of about 1 to 2 hours a
day to put down all the components... and there's only about 120 maybe
150 components. that's *ridiculously* slow.

...but i don't care if it's slow: this is my first PCB since..
since.... making illegal FM transmitters back in 1983 from "the
anarchist's handbook". i've done the "pay someone else to design
PCBs" thing - that didn't work out. even paying someone else to
assemble PCBs is relatively pricey (if you get it wrong more than zero
times).

so i am simplifying the task to one which, with my skill set, stands
an above-average chance of success and/or is a much lower iterative
cost.
Post by joem
Its more safer and use as many times as
you want. (Some items such as LEDs won't survive re-use too many times -
but they are cheap to replace.)
found that out already :) one of the other components i destroyed
was an 0805 LED - i hand-soldered the next one...

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to
joem
2015-09-29 12:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by joem
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
so i'm using the T862A as a PCB development tool
No. Nurse the oven as your tool.
remember, joe, you've done this a _lot_, so have much more confidence
in your abilities,
No problem Luke - we all start somewhere and learn the hard way :)
So here is how i would do it. You don't have to follow any of it - its
just what I would do..

Rely on the oven as no.1 tool. T862A looks like a re-balling tool which
is there to apply localised heat on a heavily populated board which
might otherwise disintegrate in an oven.

The smallish PCB you have is great for oven - so long as buttons led and
other plastic heavy or heat sensitive items are applied last.

Apply solder paste sparingly. They can easily bridge if too much.
Use solder flux to flow in between the pins to prevent this as much as
possible.

If you make a mistake, have a bucket ready, re-heat in oven, at highest
temperature open oven and flick the board fast and slam to the side of
the bucket. Instant de-populated board to start again :)
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
it's taken 2-3 weeks of about 1 to 2 hours a
day to put down all the components... and there's only about 120 maybe
150 components. that's *ridiculously* slow.
Exactly what I imagined might happen with a re-balling tool. :(


_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.p

Loading...