[Arm-netbook] libre hardware

[Muhammed Adel Afzal]

Hi Luke

Trisquel forum member tct claimed that EOMA68 is not libre hardware because the schematics (?) are not available. I read your Crowd Supply page a while ago and recall (and another forum member pointed out too) that you plan to release these schematics later. Do you have anything to add or specify or reiterate on this?

Although eoma68 PCB is not libre now ... it will be some time between now and when it ships, right?

I don't mean to dull the mood now that the effort reached 99%. I support your effort and have faith that it's a good faith effort. Sorry if you already responded on the Trisquel forum and I missed it ... there were a lot of posts on this subject.

Adel

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send la

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Hi Luke
Trisquel forum member tct claimed that EOMA68 is not libre hardware because the schematics (?) are not available.

which is total bollocks. he should have f*****g well asked instead
of accusing.

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
I read your Crowd Supply page a while ago and recall (and another forum member pointed out too) that you plan to release these schematics later.

schematics are *already* available and have been available for years,
as anyone who *bothered to check* - as tct clearly did not - that
people here on this list have been doing reviews on a regular basis
for years, one of which was done ONLY LAST WEEK. it's right here:

http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2016-August/011644.html

does that look like a link to PDF schematics? why it most certainly
does, doesn't it!

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Do you have anything to add or specify or reiterate on this?

other than being really annoyed that people make accusations instead
of bothering to ask.... no i don't.

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Although eoma68 PCB is not libre now ... it will be some time between now and when it ships, right?

it says on the page, very clearly, that i would like to see the
$20,000+ financial investment recouped and the project not be
disrupted by 3rd parties taking copies of the hardware and selling
them during the campaign.

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
I don't mean to dull the mood now that the effort reached 99%. I support your effort and have faith that it's a good faith effort.

thanks. you should know that someone who's been working on software
libre for 20 years and who has turned down lucrative non-free
contracts should be pretty much 100% behind the libre concept!!

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Sorry if you already responded on the Trisquel forum and I missed it ... there were a lot of posts on this subject.

i haven't even seen them yet.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attac

[Muhammed Adel Afzal]

Thanks Luke.

I chipped in a few hours ago and I can't wait for April.

Adel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" <***@lkcl.net>
To: "Linux on small ARM machines" <arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:02:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] libre hardware

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Hi Luke
Trisquel forum member tct claimed that EOMA68 is not libre hardware because the schematics (?) are not available.

which is total bollocks. he should have f*****g well asked instead
of accusing.

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
I read your Crowd Supply page a while ago and recall (and another forum member pointed out too) that you plan to release these schematics later.

schematics are *already* available and have been available for years,
as anyone who *bothered to check* - as tct clearly did not - that
people here on this list have been doing reviews on a regular basis
for years, one of which was done ONLY LAST WEEK. it's right here:

http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2016-August/011644.html

does that look like a link to PDF schematics? why it most certainly
does, doesn't it!

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Do you have anything to add or specify or reiterate on this?

other than being really annoyed that people make accusations instead
of bothering to ask.... no i don't.

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Although eoma68 PCB is not libre now ... it will be some time between now and when it ships, right?

it says on the page, very clearly, that i would like to see the
$20,000+ financial investment recouped and the project not be
disrupted by 3rd parties taking copies of the hardware and selling
them during the campaign.

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
I don't mean to dull the mood now that the effort reached 99%. I support your effort and have faith that it's a good faith effort.

thanks. you should know that someone who's been working on software
libre for 20 years and who has turned down lucrative non-free
contracts should be pretty much 100% behind the libre concept!!

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Sorry if you already responded on the Trisquel forum and I missed it ... there were a lot of posts on this subject.

i haven't even seen them yet.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.co.uk

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.co.

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Thanks Luke.

no problem adel

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
I chipped in a few hours ago and I can't wait for April.

well, keep in touch on here - it's gonna be busy :) we just passed
$151k, and still climbing.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send la

[Muhammed Adel Afzal]

Definitely =)

Also ... lol @ Chris Havel

Congrats Luke, Chris W, Chris H, and everyone here

Adel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" <***@lkcl.net>
To: "Linux on small ARM machines" <arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:24:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] libre hardware

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
Thanks Luke.

no problem adel

Post by Muhammed Adel Afzal
I chipped in a few hours ago and I can't wait for April.

well, keep in touch on here - it's gonna be busy :) we just passed
$151k, and still climbing.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.co.uk

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments

[Christopher Havel]

@ Mr Afzal -- I designed a relatively insignificant portion of the video
circuitry. It appears on the Micro-Desktop PCB. I consider it a bit of a
kludge -- it's effective, but only by brute force. It's hobbyist grade
stuff... then again, I'm a hobbyist, so I suppose it's to be expected...

90% of it was taken straight from Wikipedia's article on the subject; all I
did was calculate values for some passives and IIRC provide a way of
turning part of it off.

Basically it's a DAC -- digital to analog converter. It converts the
TTL-level (0-5v) pulses off the CPU card to the 0-0.7v analog voltages
required for the RGB lines on the VGA port. It's the cheap and nasty R-2R
resistor ladder kind of DAC. Sure, it's inexpensive, but it'd give any real
electronics engineer a cringe and a shudder. Dave Jones (EEVBlog on
YouTube) would quite likely pop a gasket if he saw such a job in *anything*
professional, and quite honestly I somewhat agree with him. I want to say
the ability to switch between 16bit and 24bit color was done with a couple
of 74xx logic chips, but I don't remember offhand which ones I used.
(Forgive me, it's been a couple years.)

The honest truth is that the triple-fistful of passives in there *should*
be replaced by a trio of dedicated flash-DAC chips -- far less crude and
far more effective.

I'm proud of the work in an "I contributed to a cool thing" sort of way,
but that's really the only way I'm proud of it. It's not something to be
proud of in terms of design, that's for sure...

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Christopher Havel

The honest truth is that the triple-fistful of passives in there should be
replaced by a trio of dedicated flash-DAC chips -- far less crude and far
more effective.

.... but about $12 - as much as the rest of the BOM! - compared to around $1

I'm proud of the work in an "I contributed to a cool thing" sort of way, but
that's really the only way I'm proud of it. It's not something to be proud
of in terms of design, that's for sure...

:)

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachment

[Christopher Havel]

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Christopher Havel

The honest truth is that the triple-fistful of passives in there should

be

replaced by a trio of dedicated flash-DAC chips -- far less crude and far
more effective.

.... but about $12 - as much as the rest of the BOM! - compared to around $1

But it's the *professional* way to do it. I'd say it's worth the extra
money not to have a bunch of EEs not faint dead away on the sight of it...
not to mention all the four-letter words Dave Jones will spout when he gets
his mitts on one... ;) trust me, he'll make the air bright blue.

(You *might* do that as a promo, Luke; the man's got quite a following...
he's an Aussie, though, so that shipping is gonna hurt...)

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Christopher Havel

Post by Christopher Havel
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Christopher Havel

The honest truth is that the triple-fistful of passives in there should be
replaced by a trio of dedicated flash-DAC chips -- far less crude and far
more effective.

.... but about $12 - as much as the rest of the BOM! - compared to around $1

But it's the *professional* way to do it. I'd say it's worth the extra money
not to have a bunch of EEs not faint dead away on the sight of it... not to
mention all the four-letter words Dave Jones will spout when he gets his
mitts on one... ;) trust me, he'll make the air bright blue.

lol - well if i can find a LOW COST RGB/TTL-to-VGA converter IC - i
remember there was one from Chrontel that i saw used in the
gpl-violating CT-PC89e years back - then i'll *consider* it. i'll
have to spend at least 2 weeks on doing a redesign plus component
sourcing.... it's a lot of extra time.

bear in mind that we set the pledge levels based on component sourcing...

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachmen

[Christopher Havel]

So do it in rev2 ;)

[Muhammed Adel Afzal]

I misunderstood; when Mr. Ross said "congratulations Chris", I thought that he meant Christopher Waid (who is working with Luke I think). I misunderstood your "blush" as a joke, taking Chris Waid's credit. It's awesome that you contributed to the Micro Desktop PCB; that sounds like a significant and valuable contribution to me.

Thank you Chris Havel,

Adel



----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Havel" <***@gmail.com>
To: "Linux on small ARM machines" <arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:14:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] libre hardware

@ Mr Afzal -- I designed a relatively insignificant portion of the video circuitry. It appears on the Micro-Desktop PCB. I consider it a bit of a kludge -- it's effective, but only by brute force. It's hobbyist grade stuff... then again, I'm a hobbyist, so I suppose it's to be expected...

90% of it was taken straight from Wikipedia's article on the subject; all I did was calculate values for some passives and IIRC provide a way of turning part of it off.

Basically it's a DAC -- digital to analog converter. It converts the TTL-level (0-5v) pulses off the CPU card to the 0-0.7v analog voltages required for the RGB lines on the VGA port. It's the cheap and nasty R-2R resistor ladder kind of DAC. Sure, it's inexpensive, but it'd give any real electronics engineer a cringe and a shudder. Dave Jones (EEVBlog on YouTube) would quite likely pop a gasket if he saw such a job in anything professional, and quite honestly I somewhat agree with him. I want to say the ability to switch between 16bit and 24bit color was done with a couple of 74xx logic chips, but I don't remember offhand which ones I used. (Forgive me, it's been a couple years.)

The honest truth is that the triple-fistful of passives in there should be replaced by a trio of dedicated flash-DAC chips -- far less crude and far more effective.

I'm proud of the work in an "I contributed to a cool thing" sort of way, but that's really the only way I'm proud of it. It's not something to be proud of in terms of design, that's for sure...

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.co.uk

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attac

[Christopher Havel]

Thanks...

...but it's still a kludge. You ever watch Star Trek? Remember the Borg?
Remember their *tech*...? It's clunky, crude, ugly -- disturbingly so.
Sure, it's effective -- amazingly so. But it's *nasty*.

That's how I feel about that work. It's clunky, crude, ugly, and nasty --
but it's brutally functional as well.

[Muhammed Adel Afzal]

I had to look up the word "kludge". It's kind of impressive that you got it working even if it's a kludge. That's a huge hurdle -- even more so without much of a R&D budget.

I used to watch Star Trek when I was 10 years old or so. I liked it but probably didn't fully appreciate it at that age. It has been too long to remember the technology on that show.

Adel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Havel" <***@gmail.com>
To: "Linux on small ARM machines" <arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] libre hardware

Thanks...

...but it's still a kludge. You ever watch Star Trek? Remember the Borg? Remember their tech ...? It's clunky, crude, ugly -- disturbingly so. Sure, it's effective -- amazingly so. But it's nasty .

That's how I feel about that work. It's clunky, crude, ugly, and nasty -- but it's brutally functional as well.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-***@files.phcomp.co.uk

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send la

[Louis Pearson]

100% now! Yes!

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:47 PM Alexander .S.T. Ross <

heh "we are the 99%" ...for now heh ;)
Soon to be "We are the 101%+" :D
Congratulations luke!
Well done every one :D.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook

[Christopher Havel]

Congrats, Luke -- and everyone else :)

[Normand Chamberland]

First time posting on the list, but congrats Luke! I'm amazed at how the
campaign picked up in the last week.

I have no knowledge of electronics so unfortunately I can't help as you
invited people to in the last update.

Will eagerly await for what's coming next!

Norm.

Post by Louis Pearson
100% now! Yes!
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:47 PM Alexander .S.T. Ross
heh "we are the 99%" ...for now heh ;)
Soon to be "We are the 101%+" :D
Congratulations luke!
Well done every one :D.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Normand Chamberland
First time posting on the list, but congrats Luke! I'm amazed at how the
campaign picked up in the last week.

yeah all of us are.

Post by Normand Chamberland
I have no knowledge of electronics so unfortunately I can't help as you
invited people to in the last update.

no problem man

Post by Normand Chamberland
Will eagerly await for what's coming next!

it's all about the journey :)

Post by Normand Chamberland
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:47 PM Alexander .S.T. Ross

heh "we are the 99%" ...for now heh ;)
Soon to be "We are the 101%+" :D
Congratulations luke!
Well done every one :D.

yeah. couldn't have got here without everyone who's backed it.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send l

[Wookey]

Post by Normand Chamberland
First time posting on the list, but congrats Luke! I'm amazed at how the
campaign picked up in the last week.

People and deadlines :-)

But yeah, really good to see. Now people have their work cut out getting
stuff built and shipped. Just slightly terrifying :-)

Wookey

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

Post by Wookey

Post by Normand Chamberland
First time posting on the list, but congrats Luke! I'm amazed at how the
campaign picked up in the last week.

People and deadlines :-)
But yeah, really good to see. Now people have their work cut out getting
stuff built and shipped. Just slightly terrifying :-)

tell me about it... :)

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attach

[Christopher Havel]

/blush

...I ain't do more'n just about squat...

[Albert ARIBAUD]

Hi,

Congrats Luke for the successful campaign!

(/me stats thinking about touchscreen/LCD emulation or simulation on the
NUCLEO)

Le Fri, 26 Aug 2016 00:47:05 +0100

heh "we are the 99%" ...for now heh ;)
Soon to be "We are the 101%+" :D
Congratulations luke!
Well done every one :D.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook

Amicalement,

[m016fec3]

Congratiolations Luke and all other, who participated in making this a
success.

I nearly lost hope at two steps: During the long wait until the
crowdfundig campaign started and when the campaign after a good start
came not realy of the ground.
But that is history now thank to your great work.

Wolfgang

Post by Albert ARIBAUD
Hi,
Congrats Luke for the successful campaign!
(/me stats thinking about touchscreen/LCD emulation or simulation on the
NUCLEO)
Le Fri, 26 Aug 2016 00:47:05 +0100

heh "we are the 99%" ...for now heh ;)
Soon to be "We are the 101%+" :D
Congratulations luke!
Well done every one :D.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook

Amicalement,

[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

Yes, congratulations.

Silly note for whoever is not busy: did you realise that the
crowdsupply percent counter rounds percentages before 100% but
truncates them from 100% on.

so $74500 of $150000 was expressed as 50% (it's closer to 49.66666%,
so rounded to 50%)

but $154220 of $150000 is expressed as 102% (it's closer to
102.81333333%, so trucated to 102% instead of rounded to 103%).

I guess one does not want the 100% to appear before the goal is reached,
and maybe that affected the >101% outputs as well

Curious, I don't know if it is intentional or some (absolutely
irrelevant) bug. I guess intentional.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-***@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachme