Discussion:
Technoethical - a good-looking seller of HW with Libre SW & firmware (Technoethical holds RYF certification)
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dumblob
2017-07-06 10:04:17 UTC
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Hi,

I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
surprised by the range of libre products they sell. Technoethical is
also RYF (https://ryf.fsf.org/ ) certified.

Luke, it might be worth contacting them with EOMA notebooks.

Cheers,

-- Jan

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zap
2017-07-06 10:57:32 UTC
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Post by dumblob
Hi,
I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
surprised by the range of libre products they sell. Technoethical is
also RYF (https://ryf.fsf.org/ ) certified.
Luke, it might be worth contacting them with EOMA notebooks.
Cheers,
-- Jan
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...

so I doubt he would be easy to convince... no maybe impossible even...

meh...

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zap
2017-07-06 11:08:24 UTC
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Post by zap
Post by dumblob
Hi,
I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
surprised by the range of libre products they sell. Technoethical is
also RYF (https://ryf.fsf.org/ ) certified.
Luke, it might be worth contacting them with EOMA notebooks.
Cheers,
-- Jan
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...
so I doubt he would be easy to convince... no maybe impossible even...
meh...
Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but he, tct, has been acting a bit odd
of late... I wish tct well but, even more so for Luke for being so much
more reasonable and chris from thinkpenguin for sponsoring Luke.

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-06 11:29:11 UTC
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Post by zap
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...
this does not surprise me. if he has been talking to the guy known
as "francis", who is best known for selling thinkpad x200 libre
laptops, but is less well-known for causing a hell of a lot of
problems, then yes he will be badly misled and misinformed.

it happens.

l.

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zap
2017-07-06 12:10:34 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Post by zap
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...
this does not surprise me. if he has been talking to the guy known
as "francis", who is best known for selling thinkpad x200 libre
laptops, but is less well-known for causing a hell of a lot of
problems, then yes he will be badly misled and misinformed.
it happens.
Actually no, he is now known as Leah. Your thinking of tct from trisquel
forums...

Francis who is known as Leah now, owns minifree not tehnoetic...

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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2017-07-06 13:35:11 UTC
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Post by zap
Post by dumblob
Hi,
I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
surprised by the range of libre products they sell. Technoethical is
also RYF (https://ryf.fsf.org/ ) certified.
Luke, it might be worth contacting them with EOMA notebooks.
Cheers,
-- Jan
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...
so I doubt he would be easy to convince... no maybe impossible even...
meh...
I believe tct’s reasons for saying EOMA68-A20 isn’t libre will no
longer matter once it is released. Please don’t dismiss tct just for
having a different definition of libre.

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zap
2017-07-06 13:36:13 UTC
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Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Post by zap
Post by dumblob
Hi,
I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
surprised by the range of libre products they sell. Technoethical is
also RYF (https://ryf.fsf.org/ ) certified.
Luke, it might be worth contacting them with EOMA notebooks.
Cheers,
-- Jan
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...
so I doubt he would be easy to convince... no maybe impossible even...
meh...
I believe tct’s reasons for saying EOMA68-A20 isn’t libre will no
longer matter once it is released. Please don’t dismiss tct just for
having a different definition of libre.
Well, I hope your right, he has been acting odd if you use trisquel
forums... you will see what I mean...
Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-06 14:27:35 UTC
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Post by zap
Well, I hope your right, he has been acting odd if you use trisquel
forums... you will see what I mean...
i know what to expect - i've seen it happen before. people get it
into their heads that i'm a threat (or in this case that chris is a
threat), and they will do absolutely anything - twist, evade,
deliberately misunderstand and outright lie - *anything* as long as
they can justify, in their minds, staying away from me or anything
that i'm doing (or in this case what chris does).

you also have to remember that tct's WIFI products are based on
chris's work (2 years of walking qualcomm through the process of
releasing the atheros 9271 firmware source code). that will be a
source of embarrassment for him. luckily, the majority of people who
do business with chris (and e.g. populate the trisquel forums) know
the story.

l.

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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2017-07-06 14:32:40 UTC
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Post by zap
Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Post by zap
Post by dumblob
Hi,
I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
surprised by the range of libre products they sell. Technoethical is
also RYF (https://ryf.fsf.org/ ) certified.
Luke, it might be worth contacting them with EOMA notebooks.
Cheers,
-- Jan
Alas, the owner of that company says that eoma68-a20 is not libre
hardware...
so I doubt he would be easy to convince... no maybe impossible even...
meh...
I believe tct’s reasons for saying EOMA68-A20 isn’t libre will no
longer matter once it is released. Please don’t dismiss tct just for
having a different definition of libre.
Well, I hope your right, he has been acting odd if you use trisquel
forums... you will see what I mean...
I suppose you are talking about discussions like this:

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available

It seems tct often participates in unfriendly discussions (be they on
the Trisquel forum or the Parabola mailing list), but to me it seems
this sometimes is the right approach (and sometimes is not).

Anyway, we two seem to agree that talking to Tehnoetic is worth a try
when EOMA68-A20 is ready.

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-06 15:01:54 UTC
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On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Anyway, we two seem to agree that talking to Tehnoetic is worth a try
when EOMA68-A20 is ready.
mmm.... no. i'm not going to initiate any conversations: i know
enough to know that doing so would not be a good idea. effort which
would centre around trying to disabuse someone of what *appears* on
the face of it to be preconceptions but in fact is a deliberate effort
to rubbish a "competing" product, such that once you had knocked down
one straw man they would simply.... create a new one... could instead
be focussed on much more productive areas and on much more receptive
people.

if however they contact _me_, then that would be an indication that
they're ready to listen.

l.

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-06 15:06:13 UTC
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btw what i suspect is that tch is expecting to blithely copy the
entire EOMA68-A20 hardware, with the expectation of spongeing off of
the time and effort put into it. just like he did by spongeing off of
chris's work with the AR9271 chain of devices.

what he doesn't realise is that it's dangerous to do that (hardware
interoperability) if he screws it up in even the smallest way it
brings the entire EOMA68 project into disrepute. you only have to
look at how chinese clones of USB3 cables are screwing up the power
provision and damaging people's devices to know that hardware is not
something you mess about with.

l.

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pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2017-07-06 16:16:03 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
btw what i suspect is that tch is expecting to blithely copy the
entire EOMA68-A20 hardware, with the expectation of spongeing off of
the time and effort put into it. just like he did by spongeing off of
chris's work with the AR9271 chain of devices.
what he doesn't realise is that it's dangerous to do that (hardware
interoperability) if he screws it up in even the smallest way it
brings the entire EOMA68 project into disrepute. you only have to
look at how chinese clones of USB3 cables are screwing up the power
provision and damaging people's devices to know that hardware is not
something you mess about with.
l.
Sounds like the divisions sadly are deeper than I thought. Thank you
for the clarification and all your work.

Regards,
Florian

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-07-07 03:38:18 UTC
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On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:16 PM, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Post by pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
Sounds like the divisions sadly are deeper than I thought.
it's not "divisions", it's very simple: the EOMA68 Certification Mark
requires that people Certify the products that they intend to
manufacture and sell, for safety reasons. i am not just blithely
going to let people randomly create hardware, slap an EOMA68 logo on
it and then be sued or imprisoned because somebody was killed in a
lithium battery fire.

this is *really serious*, and must take absolute precedence over
*any* kind of "freedoms" offered by libre hardware and libre software
licenses.

l.

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Kyle
2017-07-06 22:16:07 UTC
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According to dumblob:
# I just came across Technoethical (https://tehnoetic.com/ ) and was
# surprised by the range of libre products they sell.

Looking at the laptops, they're all refurbished Thinkpads with Intel
inside. I would perform a libre installation on such hardware if someone
already owned it, but I would certainly never consider selling it as
anything close to libre hardware. It has been said that the software
makes all the difference, but Intel ucode really is a thing, and the
stuff they have hidden in their CPU's for years makes libre software
pretty much moot. Just my 2 Satoshi.
Sent from the end

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dumblob
2017-07-12 09:25:17 UTC
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Hi Kyle,
Looking at the laptops, they're all refurbished Thinkpads with Intel inside.
I would perform a libre installation on such hardware if someone already
owned it, but I would certainly never consider selling it as anything close
to libre hardware. It has been said that the software makes all the
difference, but Intel ucode really is a thing, and the stuff they have
hidden in their CPU's for years makes libre software pretty much moot.
Correct. I should have used the official term "libre-friendly" instead
of "libre".

Cheers,

-- Jan

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