Discussion:
3D Printering Idea
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Christopher Havel
2017-06-24 22:32:24 UTC
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Hey, Luke, is this article at all useful to you?

http://hackaday.com/2017/06/24/hackaday-prize-entry-a-3d-printer-management-system/

It looks like something you could fairly easily implement in such a way as
to potentially speed up laptop part printing... the way I envision it, you
have one printer for each part, and it just spits out one after another
into, eg, an empty Tide or Fresh Step box.

...or maybe I'm daydreaming. You tell me :)
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-06-24 22:58:15 UTC
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On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 11:32 PM, Christopher Havel
Post by Christopher Havel
Hey, Luke, is this article at all useful to you?
http://hackaday.com/2017/06/24/hackaday-prize-entry-a-3d-printer-management-system/
It looks like something you could fairly easily implement in such a way as
to potentially speed up laptop part printing... the way I envision it, you
have one printer for each part, and it just spits out one after another
into, eg, an empty Tide or Fresh Step box.
i saw an ultimaker-2 just use the printhead to push parts off the
printbed. it was even simpler than what that guy came up with. a
heated bed one would assume you let it cool down first but it's so
simple it's hardly worth there being a prize.

l.

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zap
2017-06-24 23:13:45 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
i saw an ultimaker-2 just use the printhead to push parts off the
printbed. it was even simpler than what that guy came up with. a
heated bed one would assume you let it cool down first but it's so
simple it's hardly worth there being a prize.
l.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't simpler better for some things? no
need to make things too complex right?

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zap
2017-06-24 23:20:41 UTC
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but I just learned what you have been trying to tell me for a while,
with regard to how the amount of ram I have been asking for: 8gb isn't
even needed.

I used lxtask manager and I looked up the difference between free and
used memory. So... yeah... this will no doubt be the last time I care
about needing more than 4gb of ram for the next 8 to 10 years. xD

yeah... my bad.


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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-06-24 23:36:05 UTC
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Post by zap
but I just learned what you have been trying to tell me for a while,
with regard to how the amount of ram I have been asking for: 8gb isn't
even needed.
ah so you've not run 25 xterms, wicd-gtk, chromium with 20 tabs open,
firefox with 200+, openscad, qemu _and_ vlc all simultaneously then :)
that takes up 13 out of 16gb

no that's a developer mindset. for ordinary average person usage,
libreoffice, one web browser maybe 3-5 tabs if that, and vlc: yes 8gb
is total overkill.

one problem is that linux tends to use unused memory for cacheing. i
have a vague recollection of it being used for file cacheing.

l.

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Christopher Havel
2017-06-24 23:41:21 UTC
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I cannot comprehend the necessity of having two hundred twenty browser tabs
open, sum total... I rarely have need for one tenth of that.

But, then, I'm not a dev. Maybe for us mere mortals, there is some
explanation? :P
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2017-06-24 23:59:30 UTC
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---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 12:41 AM, Christopher Havel
Post by Christopher Havel
I cannot comprehend the necessity of having two hundred twenty browser tabs
open, sum total... I rarely have need for one tenth of that.
information / history. search for one topic, explore five links
(right-mouse tab) and not find what you want, then close 1/2 of them,
open 5 more. within 5-10 minutes there are 20 tabs open on one topic.

then get another email message, and have something else to track
down. but you're still in the middle of analysing the previous lot,
which may take time. so leave those open.

repeat that process and after 2 months you easily have 200 or more tabs open.

l.

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Christopher Havel
2017-06-25 00:04:49 UTC
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Fair enough. Suggestion: power cycling your computer more than every few
months might be good for it.

Mine gets rented-mule stubborn/slow after a couple /days/ like that. Not to
mention, Mint has a bug with suspend/hibernate related to the wifi card --
I always have to unplug and replug it (I use an external card, the internal
one is a burnt out POS and this Thinkpad still has an intact whitelist).

OK, enough typing from me for a while -- this laptop went for a tumble two
days ago and the spacebar now works only if I freakin' stand on it. So I'm
done, till I can get someone with actual dexterity to have a look at it.
Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
---
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On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 12:41 AM, Christopher Havel
Post by Christopher Havel
I cannot comprehend the necessity of having two hundred twenty browser
tabs
Post by Christopher Havel
open, sum total... I rarely have need for one tenth of that.
information / history. search for one topic, explore five links
(right-mouse tab) and not find what you want, then close 1/2 of them,
open 5 more. within 5-10 minutes there are 20 tabs open on one topic.
then get another email message, and have something else to track
down. but you're still in the middle of analysing the previous lot,
which may take time. so leave those open.
repeat that process and after 2 months you easily have 200 or more tabs open.
l.
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Hendrik Boom
2017-06-25 01:37:59 UTC
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Post by Christopher Havel
Fair enough. Suggestion: power cycling your computer more than every few
months might be good for it.
I do end up power-cycling my computer; I tend not to leave it on when I
put in a ventilation- and rain-proof bag to tke it somewhere.

When I power it up and start the browser, it offers to restat the tabs
that were open when it lost control during the power down. I get to
choose which ones. It's meant as a crash-recovery mechanism, but has
other uses.

This is quite useful, and can lead to tabs accumulating longterm.

If I actually explicitly shut down the browser, it does not rememmber
all the open tabs.

I could use more RAM. But my 32-bit system won't take more than 2GiB.

-- hendrik

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Christopher Havel
2017-06-25 01:50:06 UTC
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In my experience, there are few things in life slower than Chrome/Chromium
after restoring a previous session...
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Hendrik Boom
2017-06-25 11:28:14 UTC
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Post by Christopher Havel
In my experience, there are few things in life slower than Chrome/Chromium
after restoring a previous session...
I use firefox. It seems to do lazy restoration of tabs, which makes it
somewhat more performant.

I've noticed that when it gets slow, doing killall firefox-esr and the
restarting it does wonders for speed. Rumour has it that firefox never
releases storage for a deleted tab, causing it to bloat.

I should try Chromium sometime. Chrome itself is no longer supported on
32-bit Linux.

I hate the way there aren't any cross-browser bookmarks. Another form
of lock-in.

-- hendrik

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Wookey
2017-06-25 12:35:19 UTC
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Post by Hendrik Boom
Post by Christopher Havel
In my experience, there are few things in life slower than Chrome/Chromium
after restoring a previous session...
I use firefox. It seems to do lazy restoration of tabs, which makes it
somewhat more performant.
Indeed. I have significant experience of this as I operate the same
way as Luke, so have hundreds of tabs in 50-odd windows at any one
time.
Post by Hendrik Boom
I've noticed that when it gets slow, doing killall firefox-esr and the
restarting it does wonders for speed. Rumour has it that firefox never
releases storage for a deleted tab, causing it to bloat.
My firefox gets noticeably slow after a few days, and extremely slow
after 10 or 20 with lots of 10-second 'hangs'. I have spent some time
trying to find out what is going on, collecting debug logs, and have
determined that it is the garbage-collection action which makes it
just do nothing for several seconds. Something is making memory
horrible fragmented and/or just using it up steadily and not giving it
back, and it just takes longer and longer to try and collect
garbage. I have not yet determined which component is doing this. I
can say that for most people (who have a lot of pages open) switching
from adblock plus to ublock origin will save stonking amounts of
memory and make things perform rather better, just because of the way
they work.
Post by Hendrik Boom
I should try Chromium sometime. Chrome itself is no longer supported on
32-bit Linux.
I have not used chromium enough to determine if it better in this
'slowdown' regard.
Post by Hendrik Boom
I hate the way there aren't any cross-browser bookmarks. Another form
of lock-in.
If you are OK with remote bookmarks then you can use them from both
chromium and firefox (e.g. google bookmarks), and it's quite easy to
transfer them in either direction, but I don't know of a local, open,
bookmark-store mechanism.

Wookey
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http://wookware.org/
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KRT Listmaster
2017-06-25 13:37:25 UTC
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On 06/25/2017 06:35 AM, Wookey wrote:

<snip>
Post by Wookey
Post by Hendrik Boom
I hate the way there aren't any cross-browser bookmarks. Another form
of lock-in.
If you are OK with remote bookmarks then you can use them from both
chromium and firefox (e.g. google bookmarks), and it's quite easy to
transfer them in either direction, but I don't know of a local, open,
bookmark-store mechanism.
Wookey
What about Import/Export to HTML? That's always worked well for me.
Also, looking at Chromium, it seems to offer to import bookmarks from
Firefox/Iceweasel (but not Icecat, from what I can tell). Likewise,
Icecat seems to offer to import from Chromium (Bookmarks -> Show All
Bookmarks -> Import and Backup -> Import Data from Another Browser).

However, I've tested the non-HTML import/export process using only a
single bookmark, so perhaps it misbehaves if you have a lot of
bookmarks/structure to transfer.

Does this not fulfill the task at hand?

- KR
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David Niklas
2017-06-26 15:55:17 UTC
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 13:35:19 +0100
Post by Wookey
Post by Hendrik Boom
Post by Christopher Havel
In my experience, there are few things in life slower than
Chrome/Chromium after restoring a previous session...
I use firefox. It seems to do lazy restoration of tabs, which makes
it somewhat more performant.
Indeed. I have significant experience of this as I operate the same
way as Luke, so have hundreds of tabs in 50-odd windows at any one
time.
If only there was a better option...

<snip>
Post by Wookey
Post by Hendrik Boom
I should try Chromium sometime. Chrome itself is no longer supported
on 32-bit Linux.
I have not used chromium enough to determine if it better in this
'slowdown' regard.
I have, chromium uses lots of memory, just like FF. It has even worse
troubles when it comes to more than 10 yabs. As for a slowdown over the
course of several days, I've not tried it because of the above problems.
Post by Wookey
Post by Hendrik Boom
I hate the way there aren't any cross-browser bookmarks. Another
form of lock-in.
If you are OK with remote bookmarks then you can use them from both
chromium and firefox (e.g. google bookmarks), and it's quite easy to
transfer them in either direction, but I don't know of a local, open,
bookmark-store mechanism.
XBEL is an xml format for bookmarks. Elinks can use it, I don't know
about FF or chromium.

http://xbel.sourceforge.net/

Sincerely,
David



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KRT Listmaster
2017-06-25 13:29:24 UTC
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On 06/24/2017 07:37 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:

<snip>
Post by Hendrik Boom
If I actually explicitly shut down the browser, it does not rememmber
all the open tabs.
Sure it does. History -> Restore Previous Session. Works perfectly for
me, even if I explicitly shut down the browser. Or are you thinking of
a different behavior than what I have in mind?

- KR
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zap
2017-06-25 00:47:15 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
information / history. search for one topic, explore five links
(right-mouse tab) and not find what you want, then close 1/2 of them,
open 5 more. within 5-10 minutes there are 20 tabs open on one topic.
then get another email message, and have something else to track
down. but you're still in the middle of analysing the previous lot,
which may take time. so leave those open.
repeat that process and after 2 months you easily have 200 or more tabs open.
l.
Actually, I also have one other thing to add, I might be wrong about my
last message. it might not even use that much.

But if I am correct, processors are more important for linux laptops
than crazy amounts of ram right?

unless, like you said they are developers.

Anyways I meant to send this directly to luke so we can drop this if you
wish.

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Christopher Havel
2017-06-25 01:27:49 UTC
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Looks exciting...
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Bill Kontos
2017-06-25 14:24:26 UTC
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On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 2:41 AM, Christopher Havel
Post by Christopher Havel
I cannot comprehend the necessity of having two hundred twenty browser tabs
open, sum total... I rarely have need for one tenth of that.
I'm using 29 tabs right now after cleaning a couple. Libre Office and
Rhythmbox open too. 4.3 out of 8 gigs free. Most of it is actually
used memory and not cached. I open the links that I'm interested in
and then leave them open until I'm done with them. You can easily get
a lot of tabs, I have gone over 50 in some cases. Besides since I
power off my computer every day at night I have it setup to reopen the
tabs from last time I used it when I open it again. So the only escape
is if I accidentally close them myself.

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David Niklas
2017-06-26 16:06:37 UTC
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 02:22:36 +0100
Post by Christopher Havel
I cannot comprehend the necessity of having two hundred twenty
browser tabs open, sum total... I rarely have need for one tenth of
that.
But, then, I'm not a dev. Maybe for us mere mortals, there is some
explanation? :P
In my case i have multi projects on the go, at diff stages of research.
From shopping for gear "projects" (reasoned consumerism) to light
weight, strong box to ship my stuff (like PA audio gear for
partys/events/camp) via courier 30KG limit for £12. too umm what...
solar pv and panels research, backlog of news articles, etc
<snip>

This is common for me too. The tabs accumulate like this:
1. Search for "How to program in C" (or some other cool thing.)
2. Open first 15 tabs of links to sites advertising tutorials.
3. Open second list of 10 tabs for sites claiming to know the "Best"
tutorial, book or other resource.
4. Go to the tabs of each website that advertised the "best" tutorial and
open tabs for their recommendations.
5. Go to each tab and open tabs for every part of the tutorial.
6. Open tabs for every "This author recommends" page.
7. Open tabs for the links the authors link to and close the "This author
recommends" pages.
8. Open tabs to expand all the tutorials and cool info you just got to.

This is how I waste memory in FF, others may differ.

Sincerely,
David

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zap
2017-06-25 00:39:23 UTC
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Post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
ah so you've not run 25 xterms, wicd-gtk, chromium with 20 tabs open,
firefox with 200+, openscad, qemu _and_ vlc all simultaneously then :)
that takes up 13 out of 16gb
no that's a developer mindset. for ordinary average person usage,
libreoffice, one web browser maybe 3-5 tabs if that, and vlc: yes 8gb
is total overkill.
I would say that even using a qemu with a winblows xp game on it while
using an emulator or waterfox/icecat might almost use 4gb of ram but
yeah... 8gb is insane for a normal user.

I see my folly now that I learned the meaning behind that show memory
used by cache as free via lxtask.

well that's all.

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